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It is comments like these that make it so difficult for some people to get treatment. Drugs should almost never be a first choice for any disease, but just like

It is comments like these that make it so difficult for some people to get treatment. Drugs should almost never be a first choice for any disease, but just like you wouldn't tell a cancer patient to forgo drugs, depression can become a fight for your life, and sometimes drugs are appropriate in that fight. That is not hyperbole. Suicide is a very real potential side effect of depression. Notwithstanding that, life is so gray and dingy when depressed that it feels like one isn't living in any meaningful way.

Alex3917 15y ago
"just like you wouldn't tell a cancer patient to forgo drugs, depression can become a fight for your life, and sometimes drugs are appropriate in that fight." No argument, did I ever say or imply otherwise? There's no doubt that drugs are sometimes the right choice, but the author was basically saying that drugs are always the right choice, which is moronic. People should make intelligent and informed decisions, it's part of being an adult.
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  I didn't read the author that way. I read the author saying drugs are a viable choice. Don't discard them simply because there is a social stigma against them.
MaxGabriel 15y ago
I think this is one of the most dangerous lines of thinking, because it is used to (and if not, has the effect of) stifling legitimate criticism of drugs. This is ESPECIALLY true when the person, like Alex, was approaching the issue in an academic way. If there's a risk that antidepressants worsen the course of depression and have dangerous side effects (suicide being the most prominent), a well-reasoned approach that reviews academic studies is certainly called for. The other problem with this position is that it presumes the correctness of your view. Let's presume the opposite--that for the majority of people the drugs worsen the course of the illness, as per my post before. If this is the case, then your comment is the one that's doing all the harm.
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  When you are extremely ill, you expect your doctor, who has many years of training and experience, to know what the correct treatment regimen is. When you are severely depressed (I'm not talking about "the blues" here!), you are exceedingly unlikely to do the research because you just don't have the energy to do it. So what happens is the depressed person hears comments like that above and, in a situation where doing anything for themselves is almost impossible, thinks, "I should make sure I am an expert on these drugs before I seek treatment", but they never do the research. I'm an exceedingly educated shopper when it comes to medicine, to the point that I've taught my doctor about some medicines, but there are certain times where it is better to just get into the doctor and start moving forward. Antidepressants and psychotropics are inconsistent at vest and require experimentation anyway. Finally, I think it is an extreme, and dangerous, straw man to take the position that, for the majority of people, antidepressants will worsen their condition. These are the kinds of comments I have personally received while sitting at the bottom of a dark hole. All those comments did was make it harder for me to get the help I needed. Severely depressed people are not rational and saying, "you should do all this rational stuff before you get help", is patently harmful.
  - Alex3917 15y ago
    "You expect your doctor, who has many years of training and experience, to know what the correct treatment regimen is." Again, there is an entire literature devoted to examining this claim. You don't just get a free pass on claiming this is true when there are hundreds of scientific studies looking at whether or not this is actually the case. "I think it is an extreme, and dangerous, straw man to take the position that, for the majority of people, antidepressants will worsen their condition." Again, it's not an opinion question, there is actual research. "Severely depressed people are not rational and saying, 'you should do all this rational stuff before you get help', is patently harmful." You are defining getting 'help' as abdicating all personal responsibility, and doing something with unknown safety and efficacy. This is completely irresponsible. There may be certain cases where the problem has spiraled out of control to the point where it's unavoidable, but as a general recommendation this is really crappy advice. Yes, depression does make it harder for people to think rationally, and it does sap one's energy. But it's not all black-and-white. Some days are better than other days, and even moderately to severely depressed are still be capable of reading books and using Google most of the time. Otherwise bibliotherapy wouldn't be such a popular treatment.

Alex3917 15y ago

"just like you wouldn't tell a cancer patient to forgo drugs, depression can become a fight for your life, and sometimes drugs are appropriate in that fight." No argument, did I ever say or imply otherwise? There's no doubt that drugs are sometimes the right choice, but the author was basically saying that drugs are always the right choice, which is moronic. People should make intelligent and informed decisions, it's part of being an adult.

SoftwareMaven 15y ago
I didn't read the author that way. I read the author saying drugs are a viable choice. Don't discard them simply because there is a social stigma against them.

MaxGabriel 15y ago

I think this is one of the most dangerous lines of thinking, because it is used to (and if not, has the effect of) stifling legitimate criticism of drugs. This is ESPECIALLY true when the person, like Alex, was approaching the issue in an academic way. If there's a risk that antidepressants worsen the course of depression and have dangerous side effects (suicide being the most prominent), a well-reasoned approach that reviews academic studies is certainly called for. The other problem with this position is that it presumes the correctness of your view. Let's presume the opposite--that for the majority of people the drugs worsen the course of the illness, as per my post before. If this is the case, then your comment is the one that's doing all the harm.

SoftwareMaven 15y ago
When you are extremely ill, you expect your doctor, who has many years of training and experience, to know what the correct treatment regimen is. When you are severely depressed (I'm not talking about "the blues" here!), you are exceedingly unlikely to do the research because you just don't have the energy to do it. So what happens is the depressed person hears comments like that above and, in a situation where doing anything for themselves is almost impossible, thinks, "I should make sure I am an expert on these drugs before I seek treatment", but they never do the research. I'm an exceedingly educated shopper when it comes to medicine, to the point that I've taught my doctor about some medicines, but there are certain times where it is better to just get into the doctor and start moving forward. Antidepressants and psychotropics are inconsistent at vest and require experimentation anyway. Finally, I think it is an extreme, and dangerous, straw man to take the position that, for the majority of people, antidepressants will worsen their condition. These are the kinds of comments I have personally received while sitting at the bottom of a dark hole. All those comments did was make it harder for me to get the help I needed. Severely depressed people are not rational and saying, "you should do all this rational stuff before you get help", is patently harmful.
- Alex3917 15y ago
  "You expect your doctor, who has many years of training and experience, to know what the correct treatment regimen is." Again, there is an entire literature devoted to examining this claim. You don't just get a free pass on claiming this is true when there are hundreds of scientific studies looking at whether or not this is actually the case. "I think it is an extreme, and dangerous, straw man to take the position that, for the majority of people, antidepressants will worsen their condition." Again, it's not an opinion question, there is actual research. "Severely depressed people are not rational and saying, 'you should do all this rational stuff before you get help', is patently harmful." You are defining getting 'help' as abdicating all personal responsibility, and doing something with unknown safety and efficacy. This is completely irresponsible. There may be certain cases where the problem has spiraled out of control to the point where it's unavoidable, but as a general recommendation this is really crappy advice. Yes, depression does make it harder for people to think rationally, and it does sap one's energy. But it's not all black-and-white. Some days are better than other days, and even moderately to severely depressed are still be capable of reading books and using Google most of the time. Otherwise bibliotherapy wouldn't be such a popular treatment.