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Personally I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. Even before the government got involved I was a bit concerned at the rapid growth of personal consumer

Personally I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. Even before the government got involved I was a bit concerned at the rapid growth of personal consumer credit through platforms like Ant financial and it was something my friend and I would occasionally discuss. These fintech comapnies made it extremely easy to obtain a loan and actively pushed these financial products through advertisements. There were also growing numbers of anecdotes online and in real life of people who didn't necessarily know or understand the financial consequences of a personal loan and ended up sadelling themselves with debt they couldn't pay back. You have to remember that China is growing rapidly, for some people their previous generations were still farming somewhere in the countryside. Some of them may in fact still be in the countryside but have access to internet and a smartphone. They might not have the adequate financial literacy. Rapidly increasing consumer debt in an economy is not necessarily a good thing as more than demonstrated by subprime debt in the 08 financial crises. If completely unchecked, it is in the interest of a company like Any to keep pushing out loans, and it wouldn't be that they are knowingly doing anything wrong. However it might not be good for the rest of society. I think western media enjoys portraying this whole incident in some sort of nefarious light but I actually think it's a prescient and responsible move.

bobthepanda 6y ago
I don’t think anyone in the West disagrees that Ant and Alibaba are big, possibly too big. The problem is the means. The Western viewpoint is that it smells like the ends don’t justify the means, and China hardly has anything resembling rule of law.
- bilbo0s 6y ago
  I'm a Westerner, so I know what you're saying. That said, on matters such as these, I think we've entered an era where the government of China does not care about the Western viewpoint. They see a potential threat to their economy, and they deal with it their own way. That's not good or bad, it's the reality of the more multi-polar era we're entering. How do we operate in this era? That's up to really smart people in the bowels of Western capitols. But in my own opinion, rule of law or no, I'm not sure going to bat for the likes of Ant is a hill we want to send soldiers to die on as they say. Ant itself was intended to flout the rule of International Law. How do we argue on its behalf in the name of "rule of law"? That squanders what little credibility we do have in China.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Maybe it's not a hill worth dying on (and I don't really see anyone actually sticking their neck out for Jack Ma) but it's a word of caution for anyone looking to invest in the exchanges in Shanghai and Hong Kong.
ethbr0 6y ago
I asked a supporter of the Iranian government (from Bahrain) why Iran had restrictions on their democracy like only allowing approved candidates to run. To which he replied, "Because you can't let a camel herder become President." Deciding "people can't think for themselves" is a slippery slope. And you've got to be talking about a pretty serious ill to balance those scales. (Take it from a country that had a camel herder for a President for four years...)
- ddorian43 6y ago
  You WILL get a camel herder if you restrict though. Like they restricted Bernie.
ernst_klim 6y ago
> I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing Of course it's a bad thing when government can seize property at will without clear legislations, separation of power, checks and balances. It's a bad omen, it means that Chinese institutions are flawed.

bobthepanda 6y ago

I don’t think anyone in the West disagrees that Ant and Alibaba are big, possibly too big. The problem is the means. The Western viewpoint is that it smells like the ends don’t justify the means, and China hardly has anything resembling rule of law.

bilbo0s 6y ago
I'm a Westerner, so I know what you're saying. That said, on matters such as these, I think we've entered an era where the government of China does not care about the Western viewpoint. They see a potential threat to their economy, and they deal with it their own way. That's not good or bad, it's the reality of the more multi-polar era we're entering. How do we operate in this era? That's up to really smart people in the bowels of Western capitols. But in my own opinion, rule of law or no, I'm not sure going to bat for the likes of Ant is a hill we want to send soldiers to die on as they say. Ant itself was intended to flout the rule of International Law. How do we argue on its behalf in the name of "rule of law"? That squanders what little credibility we do have in China.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  Maybe it's not a hill worth dying on (and I don't really see anyone actually sticking their neck out for Jack Ma) but it's a word of caution for anyone looking to invest in the exchanges in Shanghai and Hong Kong.

ethbr0 6y ago

I asked a supporter of the Iranian government (from Bahrain) why Iran had restrictions on their democracy like only allowing approved candidates to run. To which he replied, "Because you can't let a camel herder become President." Deciding "people can't think for themselves" is a slippery slope. And you've got to be talking about a pretty serious ill to balance those scales. (Take it from a country that had a camel herder for a President for four years...)

ddorian43 6y ago
You WILL get a camel herder if you restrict though. Like they restricted Bernie.

ernst_klim 6y ago

> I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing Of course it's a bad thing when government can seize property at will without clear legislations, separation of power, checks and balances. It's a bad omen, it means that Chinese institutions are flawed.