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> As far as I know, Citadel and Melvin Capital no longer are holding any short positions in Gamestop. So what do they have to gain, by your narrative, from supp

> As far as I know, Citadel and Melvin Capital no longer are holding any short positions in Gamestop. So what do they have to gain, by your narrative, from suppressing the price? If this is accurate then your question makes sense. Why? But how do we know this is real though? They could play games as well and I'm sure they do. Stock trading is gambling.

whimsicalism 6y ago
Citadel securities does not "play games", they aren't YOLO-ing on a GME short. They are happy to model the market so they can hedge better than their competitors and make money off of the bid-ask spread. Melvin Capital has already stated they have closed out their position, think it would probably be fraud if they hadn't.
- cryptonym 6y ago
  You may work on some fancy model but at the end of the day you are taking a risk and there is a possibility to lose in the worst possible way. Call it games, YOLO or hedge better than competitors. Maybe, the problem was just transferred to someone else so they can remove it from their statements. And now that someone is trying to deal with this. Unless we have trustable source with all the details on how that position has been closed, I don't think it's safe to assume anything.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    > you are taking a risk and there is a possibility to lose in the worst possible way. Call it games, YOLO or hedge better than competitors. Sure, there is some risk in liquidity provisioning, but I think you are really not understanding what market makers do and conflating it with hedge funds.
- TuringNYC 6y ago
  >> Melvin Capital has already stated they have closed out their position, think it would probably be fraud if they hadn't. IANAL but I doubt this would be fraud -- they arent a public corporation making statements about themselves. They did have LPs, but i'm not sure what restrictions there are around speaking -- would anyone know?
  - cmdli 6y ago
    IANAL also, but I would imagine that they would need to represent themselves accurately to their investors at the very least. Perhaps they could be telling their investors something different privately?
    - TuringNYC 6y ago
      Yes, hedge funds send their LPs private "Investor Letters" with a lot more detail. Not sure who the public statement was meant for, but it might have been meant to discourage the public from taking opposing positions. You wouldnt communicate to your LPs via CNBC or Twitter.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  Iirc they only stated that they closed "a" position. Others have run with that in a horrid game of telephone.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    "Melvin Capital has repositioned our portfolio over the past few days. We have closed out our position in GME (GameStop)" You recall incorrectly. I encourage you to Google before commenting your recollections, it's quite easy to find.
    - llampx 6y ago
      They have every incentive to lie
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
      Where's your source?
      - whimsicalism 6y ago
        Literally just google the sentence I posted, it's been reproduced on a number of reputable outlets.
    - exclusiv 6y ago
      Which "spokesman" made that statement? Pretty easy to deny no? "Melvin Capital has repositioned our portfolio over the past few days. We have closed out our position in GME (GameStop)," the spokesman said in a statement. [1] [1] https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2021-01-27/hedge-fund-melvin-capital-has-closed-gamestop-position-spokesman https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2021-01-27/hed...
- baq 6y ago
  remember they don't have to report if they opened another one.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    If they opened another one, it would be at the much higher price and thus fine.
    - baq 6y ago
      couple hours after sister company of their major stakeholder (as of monday) disables purchases of the same stock for retail. this stinks.
- shrimpx 6y ago
  Have they closed out their position? They said via CNBC that they have "closed a position", that's basically the quote that's making the rounds.
- npsimons 6y ago
  > Melvin Capital has already stated they have closed out their position, think it would probably be fraud if they hadn't. Two points: 1. As I understood it, they closed *A* position, not their whole position, and announced that in the hopes it would deflate the stock price so Melvin doesn't crater. 2. And what, exactly, would be the punishment for this fraud, assuming they even get prosecuted and convicted? Can you put a dollar figure on it? Now put a dollar figure on how much they would lose if they didn't make that announcement, and compare the two numbers.

whimsicalism 6y ago

Citadel securities does not "play games", they aren't YOLO-ing on a GME short. They are happy to model the market so they can hedge better than their competitors and make money off of the bid-ask spread. Melvin Capital has already stated they have closed out their position, think it would probably be fraud if they hadn't.

cryptonym 6y ago
You may work on some fancy model but at the end of the day you are taking a risk and there is a possibility to lose in the worst possible way. Call it games, YOLO or hedge better than competitors. Maybe, the problem was just transferred to someone else so they can remove it from their statements. And now that someone is trying to deal with this. Unless we have trustable source with all the details on how that position has been closed, I don't think it's safe to assume anything.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  > you are taking a risk and there is a possibility to lose in the worst possible way. Call it games, YOLO or hedge better than competitors. Sure, there is some risk in liquidity provisioning, but I think you are really not understanding what market makers do and conflating it with hedge funds.
TuringNYC 6y ago
>> Melvin Capital has already stated they have closed out their position, think it would probably be fraud if they hadn't. IANAL but I doubt this would be fraud -- they arent a public corporation making statements about themselves. They did have LPs, but i'm not sure what restrictions there are around speaking -- would anyone know?
- cmdli 6y ago
  IANAL also, but I would imagine that they would need to represent themselves accurately to their investors at the very least. Perhaps they could be telling their investors something different privately?
  - TuringNYC 6y ago
    Yes, hedge funds send their LPs private "Investor Letters" with a lot more detail. Not sure who the public statement was meant for, but it might have been meant to discourage the public from taking opposing positions. You wouldnt communicate to your LPs via CNBC or Twitter.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
Iirc they only stated that they closed "a" position. Others have run with that in a horrid game of telephone.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  "Melvin Capital has repositioned our portfolio over the past few days. We have closed out our position in GME (GameStop)" You recall incorrectly. I encourage you to Google before commenting your recollections, it's quite easy to find.
  - llampx 6y ago
    They have every incentive to lie
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
    Where's your source?
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      Literally just google the sentence I posted, it's been reproduced on a number of reputable outlets.
  - exclusiv 6y ago
    Which "spokesman" made that statement? Pretty easy to deny no? "Melvin Capital has repositioned our portfolio over the past few days. We have closed out our position in GME (GameStop)," the spokesman said in a statement. [1] [1] https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2021-01-27/hedge-fund-melvin-capital-has-closed-gamestop-position-spokesman https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2021-01-27/hed...
baq 6y ago
remember they don't have to report if they opened another one.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  If they opened another one, it would be at the much higher price and thus fine.
  - baq 6y ago
    couple hours after sister company of their major stakeholder (as of monday) disables purchases of the same stock for retail. this stinks.
shrimpx 6y ago
Have they closed out their position? They said via CNBC that they have "closed a position", that's basically the quote that's making the rounds.
npsimons 6y ago
> Melvin Capital has already stated they have closed out their position, think it would probably be fraud if they hadn't. Two points: 1. As I understood it, they closed *A* position, not their whole position, and announced that in the hopes it would deflate the stock price so Melvin doesn't crater. 2. And what, exactly, would be the punishment for this fraud, assuming they even get prosecuted and convicted? Can you put a dollar figure on it? Now put a dollar figure on how much they would lose if they didn't make that announcement, and compare the two numbers.