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We need to condemn the condemners. The don't / can't doers. Here is an F1 racing wheel - used in some of the highest (not lowest) performance driving. https:/

We need to condemn the condemners. The don't / can't doers. Here is an F1 racing wheel - used in some of the highest (not lowest) performance driving. https://www.popsci.com/f1-racing-steering-wheel-complicated/ https://www.popsci.com/f1-racing-steering-wheel-complicated/ Airbus moved away from yolks on their planes as part of a move towards greater automation, with great success. Same arguments were made there BTW. The market for utilitarian design is high. Tesla's for example have some of the LOWEST injury rates per mile driven. The whole package (which is how this all should be judged) is safer than many cars driving on the roads today. A design that for example allows someone to drive faster than 10MPH (which clearly reduces safety) should be condemned? I condemn this type of absolutely ridiculous over the top language use and this ridiculous absolutism.

Hamuko 6y ago
>Here is an F1 racing wheel - used in some of the highest (not lowest) performance driving. It's worth remembering that an F1 racing car is not road legal and are not driven in traffic. I've personally never seen someone pull out of a parking space in an F1 single-seater.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >It's worth remembering that an F1 racing car is not road legal and are not driven in traffic. It's also worth remembering that, unlike Tesla, the author of the article never did any real usability tests for the steering yoke design...
tomatotomato37 6y ago
Did you read the article? F1 racers only use that design of steering wheel because they have ultra tight steering ratios that allow you to lock the wheels in a direction without multiple turns of the wheel; whereas anything used by civilians will have a much less twitchy ratio that needs an actual wheel. Note this is also why big rigs usually have an additinal rotating handle attached to their wheels, since their ratios are very loose due to their weight and thus may need to turn their wheel 10+ times.
- Retric 6y ago
  As your speed increases you make smaller adjustments to turn because your traction limited. The kind of hand over hand steering people are concerned about is simply irrelevant at highway speeds let alone F1 speeds. It’s the same reason they need to slow down to corner. Anyway, big rigs have loose steering because they need precision at highway speeds. The point is to minimize accident risks due to physics rather than any purely mechanical limitation.
  - RaceWon 6y ago
    >> Anyway, big rigs have loose steering because they need precision at highway speeds. The opposite is actually true. Big rigs have loose steering so that the driver will Not jack knife the truck in a panic situation. A tighter steering rack is Much more precise. Street tires, and especially racing tires, work best (have the most grip) at very narrow slip angles. Here's a Wikipedia about the "friction circle" as racers call it. "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_forces#:~:text=From%20Wikipedia,%20the%20free%20encyclopedia%20The%20circle%20of,surface%20lies%20in%20the%20x%20-%20y%20plane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_forces#:~:text=From%..." Here's a Great video shot at the Nürburgring showing an astonishing lap record of the Porsche 919 Hybrid race car, precision personified... Enjoy! "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQmSUHhP3ug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQmSUHhP3ug"
    - Retric 6y ago
      You’ve missed my point. Semi’s air suspension seats bounce around quite a bit which prevents them from keeping their hands steady. So, they need to dampen the input from such motions at highway speeds as race car style steering with would be counter productive in terms of precision. Which is why they have to turn the wheel so much. It’s also useful for mechanical leverage should power steering go out.
mikestew 6y ago
Here is an F1 racing wheel Unless your commute involves a closed course, how is this remotely relevant? Better yet, TFA specifically addressed this point.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
thih9 6y ago
> Here is an F1 racing wheel This is addressed in the article: "And indeed Formula One and many other forms of on-road racing feature steering wheels that look like oversized Batarangs. The thing is, those cars offer swift steering ratios, needing as little as 180 degrees of rotation to turn from the left-most steering extent to the right. Your average street car? Try 900 degrees of rotation from full left to right. That's two and a half turns. More rotation means slower turning, yes, but it also means more precision and frankly greater safety. A razor-sharp steering rack is a great thing on the racetrack."
- oceanplexian 6y ago
  Tesla is drive by wire so Tesla can make the steering ratio whatever they want. In fact it may be completely configurable in software.
  - zlsa 6y ago
    This is false. Tesla steering is mechanical with electrical assist[0][1]. [0]: https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/113303/steering-and-brakes-real-mechanical-connections https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/113303/steering-and-brak... [1]: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-the-s-steer-by-wire.93894/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-the-s-steer-by-...
- daemin 6y ago
  Also they end up customising how much moving the steering wheel turns the actual wheels for each race. For example at Monaco they end up making the limits of the steering wheel move the actual wheels far more than on a faster circuit.
brookside 6y ago
Tesla low injury rates per mile could partially be due to wealthy / environmentalist(?) owners being better drivers
RaceWon 6y ago
I race cars. I've been on track with Ex-Grand Prix Drivers. Some of the biggest names in racing, and for sure the Worlds Best racing instructors helped teach me how to drive race cars at the limit of adhesion. I have consulted with the same sports psychologist that pioneered the training program for F1 and Indy car racers at Methodist Hospital in Indianapolis--The Performance Institute. They actually called me on the phone when my test results were calculated and told me "I wasting my time running a contracting business" because I was a World Class racer as far as their testing was concerned. Now I'm not saying I have ever driven a car with the insane performance of an F1 car. I did however walk away from an offer for a fully funded season to race a Swift DB6 (2 liter) after I had tested in that year's national championship winning car. What a fucking car, I loved that car! There were two reasons why I walked away from that offer: Mainly because I am Not brilliant at learning new race tracks. And the faster and more expensive the race car--the less time you have to learn a new circuit and get into your racing rhythm (I suspect this is because I did not race as a child. I was in my twenty's when I started going to racing schools and racing). And the second reason is I was 33 years old at that time; I had a wife, a newborn baby, a contracting business, and a mortgage. However; I was arguably the fastest Formula Ford driver in America on any given day. I beat a National race winner's lap time by .4 of a second a lap using the exact same car race car in back to back sessions. For years and years.. and YEARS--all I thought about was how to be a better driver. Every sport I played was done to improve either my balance (driving at the limit, is in good part--feel and balance), my concentration and my strength. My point is I have some idea of what is required to drive a F1 car. I really don't to put anyone down here: but the fact is a racing driver Would Never Ever buy a self-driving car. And trust me unless you own fire proof underwear and can drive 100 mph on a snow covered road (with winter tires of course. Racers' employ a particular eye technique coupled a steering tactic gives us so much more time to make decisions when we drive. Plus we can drive a car sideways while whistling a happy tune) you would have a hard time imagining just how good GOOD really is. Launch control, dual clutch transmissions yeah we love that stuff it let's us drive quicker. Traction control, automatic braking, lane departure systems we hate shit. And No real racer would buy any car where those systems can't be turned off. I turn them off my on car ALWAYS and MOST ESPECIALLY in the Snow, Ice and rain... that shit is off--because I'm FAR better at controlling the car than those systems are.

Hamuko 6y ago

>Here is an F1 racing wheel - used in some of the highest (not lowest) performance driving. It's worth remembering that an F1 racing car is not road legal and are not driven in traffic. I've personally never seen someone pull out of a parking space in an F1 single-seater.

coldtea 6y ago
>It's worth remembering that an F1 racing car is not road legal and are not driven in traffic. It's also worth remembering that, unlike Tesla, the author of the article never did any real usability tests for the steering yoke design...

tomatotomato37 6y ago

Did you read the article? F1 racers only use that design of steering wheel because they have ultra tight steering ratios that allow you to lock the wheels in a direction without multiple turns of the wheel; whereas anything used by civilians will have a much less twitchy ratio that needs an actual wheel. Note this is also why big rigs usually have an additinal rotating handle attached to their wheels, since their ratios are very loose due to their weight and thus may need to turn their wheel 10+ times.

Retric 6y ago
As your speed increases you make smaller adjustments to turn because your traction limited. The kind of hand over hand steering people are concerned about is simply irrelevant at highway speeds let alone F1 speeds. It’s the same reason they need to slow down to corner. Anyway, big rigs have loose steering because they need precision at highway speeds. The point is to minimize accident risks due to physics rather than any purely mechanical limitation.
- RaceWon 6y ago
  >> Anyway, big rigs have loose steering because they need precision at highway speeds. The opposite is actually true. Big rigs have loose steering so that the driver will Not jack knife the truck in a panic situation. A tighter steering rack is Much more precise. Street tires, and especially racing tires, work best (have the most grip) at very narrow slip angles. Here's a Wikipedia about the "friction circle" as racers call it. "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_forces#:~:text=From%20Wikipedia,%20the%20free%20encyclopedia%20The%20circle%20of,surface%20lies%20in%20the%20x%20-%20y%20plane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_forces#:~:text=From%..." Here's a Great video shot at the Nürburgring showing an astonishing lap record of the Porsche 919 Hybrid race car, precision personified... Enjoy! "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQmSUHhP3ug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQmSUHhP3ug"
  - Retric 6y ago
    You’ve missed my point. Semi’s air suspension seats bounce around quite a bit which prevents them from keeping their hands steady. So, they need to dampen the input from such motions at highway speeds as race car style steering with would be counter productive in terms of precision. Which is why they have to turn the wheel so much. It’s also useful for mechanical leverage should power steering go out.

mikestew 6y ago

Here is an F1 racing wheel Unless your commute involves a closed course, how is this remotely relevant? Better yet, TFA specifically addressed this point.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

thih9 6y ago

> Here is an F1 racing wheel This is addressed in the article: "And indeed Formula One and many other forms of on-road racing feature steering wheels that look like oversized Batarangs. The thing is, those cars offer swift steering ratios, needing as little as 180 degrees of rotation to turn from the left-most steering extent to the right. Your average street car? Try 900 degrees of rotation from full left to right. That's two and a half turns. More rotation means slower turning, yes, but it also means more precision and frankly greater safety. A razor-sharp steering rack is a great thing on the racetrack."

oceanplexian 6y ago
Tesla is drive by wire so Tesla can make the steering ratio whatever they want. In fact it may be completely configurable in software.
- zlsa 6y ago
  This is false. Tesla steering is mechanical with electrical assist[0][1]. [0]: https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/113303/steering-and-brakes-real-mechanical-connections https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/113303/steering-and-brak... [1]: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-the-s-steer-by-wire.93894/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-the-s-steer-by-...
daemin 6y ago
Also they end up customising how much moving the steering wheel turns the actual wheels for each race. For example at Monaco they end up making the limits of the steering wheel move the actual wheels far more than on a faster circuit.

brookside 6y ago

Tesla low injury rates per mile could partially be due to wealthy / environmentalist(?) owners being better drivers

RaceWon 6y ago

I race cars. I've been on track with Ex-Grand Prix Drivers. Some of the biggest names in racing, and for sure the Worlds Best racing instructors helped teach me how to drive race cars at the limit of adhesion. I have consulted with the same sports psychologist that pioneered the training program for F1 and Indy car racers at Methodist Hospital in Indianapolis--The Performance Institute. They actually called me on the phone when my test results were calculated and told me "I wasting my time running a contracting business" because I was a World Class racer as far as their testing was concerned. Now I'm not saying I have ever driven a car with the insane performance of an F1 car. I did however walk away from an offer for a fully funded season to race a Swift DB6 (2 liter) after I had tested in that year's national championship winning car. What a fucking car, I loved that car! There were two reasons why I walked away from that offer: Mainly because I am Not brilliant at learning new race tracks. And the faster and more expensive the race car--the less time you have to learn a new circuit and get into your racing rhythm (I suspect this is because I did not race as a child. I was in my twenty's when I started going to racing schools and racing). And the second reason is I was 33 years old at that time; I had a wife, a newborn baby, a contracting business, and a mortgage. However; I was arguably the fastest Formula Ford driver in America on any given day. I beat a National race winner's lap time by .4 of a second a lap using the exact same car race car in back to back sessions. For years and years.. and YEARS--all I thought about was how to be a better driver. Every sport I played was done to improve either my balance (driving at the limit, is in good part--feel and balance), my concentration and my strength. My point is I have some idea of what is required to drive a F1 car. I really don't to put anyone down here: but the fact is a racing driver Would Never Ever buy a self-driving car. And trust me unless you own fire proof underwear and can drive 100 mph on a snow covered road (with winter tires of course. Racers' employ a particular eye technique coupled a steering tactic gives us so much more time to make decisions when we drive. Plus we can drive a car sideways while whistling a happy tune) you would have a hard time imagining just how good GOOD really is. Launch control, dual clutch transmissions yeah we love that stuff it let's us drive quicker. Traction control, automatic braking, lane departure systems we hate shit. And No real racer would buy any car where those systems can't be turned off. I turn them off my on car ALWAYS and MOST ESPECIALLY in the Snow, Ice and rain... that shit is off--because I'm FAR better at controlling the car than those systems are.