6 ms·

Jack Ma was too high profile to disappear, from my Chinese co-workers, Jack Ma's shares have shrunken to almost nothing, this is just another one of the many "f

by f430 6y ago

Jack Ma was too high profile to disappear, from my Chinese co-workers, Jack Ma's shares have shrunken to almost nothing, this is just another one of the many "forced nationalization" except Jack gets to keep some of his assets. background info: With the trade war and sanctions on HK, the CCP is running low on currency reserves and is going after private property and ownership. Expect more Chinese billionaires to disappear for a while and happily praise their relinquishment of ownership. Side track but similar situation in S. Korea: Current Korean administration is also trying to force Jay Lee (Samsung Heir & ex-CEO) to sell a huge chunk of his shares to the government (would force the share prices to tank). Word on the street is Samsung is going to nationalize which would spell disaster for the Korean economy which relies 25% of its GDP on Samsung.

liuliu 6y ago
1. Jack Ma's share is not significant is known several years ago, because a. he was generous in given shares to people and that works better for BABA b. BABA hasn't been profitable for long time and has taken several rounds of VC money. These were the days without now common A / B class share structure. That was why BABA chose to use the innovative "partnership" structure to retain control (and also getting rid of Yahoo Japan's controlling shares) when IPOing. 2. private ownership != currency reserves. IF CCP is running low on currency reserves (which they don't at the moment, it was a few years back, since then they strengthened capital control), they can force the companies to pulling money back to the mainland, i.e. pumping up USD reserve and given out CNY to these companies. They don't need ownership. In fact, this happened to Wanda and Hainai Airlines a few years ago, when they invested aggressively overseas, and has since then pulled back the capital (sold these oversea assets) to mainland. The art of dictatorship is strange, and requires much better understanding than just "evil takes over private ownership".
- ardy42 6y ago
  > The art of dictatorship is strange, and requires much better understanding than just "evil takes over private ownership". Also, dictators have no need to own anything (at least domestically). They already have the power, so what do they gain by "owning" something they already control? IMHO, private property/ownership is really only a useful concept when you have to allocate control among legally-equal(ish) peers. I think a lot of people really only understand their own place in their own society, and a lot of time they end up just projecting that onto some other situation when it doesn't really apply.
  - wincy 6y ago
    Right, Vladimir Putin is arguably one of the richest men in the world, but none of it is "on the books" as he just has dozens of "state-owned" palaces and mansions throughout Russia.
- the-dude 6y ago
  The art of dicatorship, I heard it here first! There is apparently a movie by the same name about Iraqi art : https://www.journeyman.tv/film/1468/the-art-of-dictatorship https://www.journeyman.tv/film/1468/the-art-of-dictatorship ( 2002 )
- f430 6y ago
  > The art of dictatorship is strange, and requires much better understanding than just "evil takes over private ownership". wow. I can't believe I am reading this on HN.
  - Geminidog 6y ago
    Christianity is basically a dictatorship where god is the dictator. Many people consider Christianity to be a good thing, so it's not that hard to believe that a dictatorship can be more than just purely evil. Do not let your biased associations drive the meaning of a concept. Dictatorship, democracy, communism, capitalism and socialism are not inherently good or bad and they are not "teams" you should join or support. They are concepts that have examples of success and failure when executed in the real world.
    - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
      Um... no. Christians are Christians by choice. Those under a dictator have no choice. Maybe use Singapore's 'benevolent dictator' as your example?
      - Geminidog 6y ago
        That's the meta view from the outside looking in. If you truly believe in Christianity then you truly believe God is the dictator and you believe there isn't a choice in the matter. Most Christians are okay with this, which is my point. I could use a real world example like Singapore but there are imperfections in that country. God is an example of a perfect dictatorship in every possible conceivable way, it's even better than democracy.
        11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
        When I was born, I was not a Christian. In order to become Christian, I had to choose to accept God as my Dictator. Later, I gave up the notion of God and Christianity, again by choice. It's like putting yourself in a prison where you can leave any time you like. Are you still in prison? Likewise, is God really a dictator?
rexarex 6y ago
It seems you may be getting downvoted by a lot of shills. Strangely the top-voted comments follow a very similar style in pro-china/anti-Ma posts with an intellectual sounding reply mentioning 'I was speaking with my friend/colleague/etc' as an appeal to popularity

by f430 6y ago

liuliu 6y ago

1. Jack Ma's share is not significant is known several years ago, because a. he was generous in given shares to people and that works better for BABA b. BABA hasn't been profitable for long time and has taken several rounds of VC money. These were the days without now common A / B class share structure. That was why BABA chose to use the innovative "partnership" structure to retain control (and also getting rid of Yahoo Japan's controlling shares) when IPOing. 2. private ownership != currency reserves. IF CCP is running low on currency reserves (which they don't at the moment, it was a few years back, since then they strengthened capital control), they can force the companies to pulling money back to the mainland, i.e. pumping up USD reserve and given out CNY to these companies. They don't need ownership. In fact, this happened to Wanda and Hainai Airlines a few years ago, when they invested aggressively overseas, and has since then pulled back the capital (sold these oversea assets) to mainland. The art of dictatorship is strange, and requires much better understanding than just "evil takes over private ownership".

ardy42 6y ago
> The art of dictatorship is strange, and requires much better understanding than just "evil takes over private ownership". Also, dictators have no need to own anything (at least domestically). They already have the power, so what do they gain by "owning" something they already control? IMHO, private property/ownership is really only a useful concept when you have to allocate control among legally-equal(ish) peers. I think a lot of people really only understand their own place in their own society, and a lot of time they end up just projecting that onto some other situation when it doesn't really apply.
- wincy 6y ago
  Right, Vladimir Putin is arguably one of the richest men in the world, but none of it is "on the books" as he just has dozens of "state-owned" palaces and mansions throughout Russia.
the-dude 6y ago
The art of dicatorship, I heard it here first! There is apparently a movie by the same name about Iraqi art : https://www.journeyman.tv/film/1468/the-art-of-dictatorship https://www.journeyman.tv/film/1468/the-art-of-dictatorship ( 2002 )
f430 6y ago
> The art of dictatorship is strange, and requires much better understanding than just "evil takes over private ownership". wow. I can't believe I am reading this on HN.
- Geminidog 6y ago
  Christianity is basically a dictatorship where god is the dictator. Many people consider Christianity to be a good thing, so it's not that hard to believe that a dictatorship can be more than just purely evil. Do not let your biased associations drive the meaning of a concept. Dictatorship, democracy, communism, capitalism and socialism are not inherently good or bad and they are not "teams" you should join or support. They are concepts that have examples of success and failure when executed in the real world.
  - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
    Um... no. Christians are Christians by choice. Those under a dictator have no choice. Maybe use Singapore's 'benevolent dictator' as your example?
    - Geminidog 6y ago
      That's the meta view from the outside looking in. If you truly believe in Christianity then you truly believe God is the dictator and you believe there isn't a choice in the matter. Most Christians are okay with this, which is my point. I could use a real world example like Singapore but there are imperfections in that country. God is an example of a perfect dictatorship in every possible conceivable way, it's even better than democracy.
      - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
        When I was born, I was not a Christian. In order to become Christian, I had to choose to accept God as my Dictator. Later, I gave up the notion of God and Christianity, again by choice. It's like putting yourself in a prison where you can leave any time you like. Are you still in prison? Likewise, is God really a dictator?

rexarex 6y ago

It seems you may be getting downvoted by a lot of shills. Strangely the top-voted comments follow a very similar style in pro-china/anti-Ma posts with an intellectual sounding reply mentioning 'I was speaking with my friend/colleague/etc' as an appeal to popularity