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"Many companies have deployed steering racks that offer variable rates, changing based on speed and steering angle. Even at their quickest, though, these racks

"Many companies have deployed steering racks that offer variable rates, changing based on speed and steering angle. Even at their quickest, though, these racks don't eliminate the need to reposition your hands for common, daily maneuvers. On top of that, most of them have been panned for making cars feel less predictable and, ultimately, less fun to drive." Citation? This sort of hand-waving dismissals of Tesla's innovations are nothing new. While I'm also suspicious of this steering interface I wouldn't write a blog post denouncing it without backing that up with evidence/studies ... hell even anecdotal comments from people who've used them.

spamizbad 6y ago
> This sort of hand-waving dismissals of Tesla's innovations Lots of things are innovative about Tesla vehicles but a steering yoke isn't one of them. It's a very old concept car trope, going as far back as the 1950s.
- josefresco 6y ago
  Cool, so where are the articles, stories and studies from those other failed attempts? My point is they AREN'T in the article - that's all.
  - swirepe 6y ago
    I think the article assumed a base familiarity with the topic. The basic idea behind variable steering ratios is, you space the teeth of your rack and pinion closer together in the middle and further away on the ends. This makes the wheel feel more sensitive in the middle. [1] Here is a car with a square wheel that nobody liked: [2] [1] https://autozine.org/technical_school/traction/Steering_2.html https://autozine.org/technical_school/traction/Steering_2.ht... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Allegro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Allegro
- Retric 6y ago
  It’s likely this is a bad idea, but the interface is only half the equation. We’re looking at form factor not the actual implication. Personally I was expecting their autopilot rollout to be a safety disaster, similarly I assumed forgoing a dashboard would be a huge issue, so having been proven wrong before I am simply reserving judgement.
stretchcat 6y ago
So now Tesla is said to be innovating when they adopt old technology invented by others? Truly Tesla is the Apple of cars, getting credit for old shit just because the fanboys know little about the domain outside their favored brand.
- josefresco 6y ago
  >So now Tesla is said to be innovating when they adopt old technology invented by others? You mean like ... an electric car? Listen to yourself: "Tesla is the Apple of cars" They took something that already existed (electric cars), re-engineered it and created something truly innovative. "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."
  - stretchcat 6y ago
    In your eagerness to paint me as a hypocrite, you forgot one important little detail: I never implied Tesla invented electric cars. No clue what that cmdrtaco quote has anything to do with this conversation, but let me be clear here: you're the one giving Telsa credit for things they didn't do, not me.
avs733 6y ago
variable rate steering racks absolutely exist - early 2000s BMW 5 series and honda S2000 are the ones off the top of my head. They are not common. Mostly nowadays a similar effect is created via variable assist. Human interface-wise, nonlinear controls are REALLY not a great idea without specific training. If you look at airplanes, where pilots are type rated, you have a lot more controls mixing with electronic flight controls and various regimes. The yoke/stick might control pitch at one point, angle of attack at another, altitude in another, and control surface deflection in another...or more realistically a mix of all of the above. Multiply by 6 dimensions of control. I think about my mother. Recently we rented a Subaru Outback. I was comfortable with the minor force/lane centering control actions it took while on cruise control. She on the other hand couldn't handle it - it became a negative feedback loop. It woudl correct her into the cetner of the lane, and she responded to it as 'the car pulling' and would over react and put us in the next lane. The car correcting itself was disconcerting and provoked a corresponding reaction that was programmed in her brain as 'correct' because the heuristic was 'force through the wheel = something wrong'. The issue here isn't whether the car does something good or bad, it is whether it does something that the average driver reacts to in a safe an appropriate way. That comes from meeting their preconceptions as to how steering behaves, unless Tesla wants to argue for type-certing their owners.

spamizbad 6y ago

> This sort of hand-waving dismissals of Tesla's innovations Lots of things are innovative about Tesla vehicles but a steering yoke isn't one of them. It's a very old concept car trope, going as far back as the 1950s.

josefresco 6y ago
Cool, so where are the articles, stories and studies from those other failed attempts? My point is they AREN'T in the article - that's all.
- swirepe 6y ago
  I think the article assumed a base familiarity with the topic. The basic idea behind variable steering ratios is, you space the teeth of your rack and pinion closer together in the middle and further away on the ends. This makes the wheel feel more sensitive in the middle. [1] Here is a car with a square wheel that nobody liked: [2] [1] https://autozine.org/technical_school/traction/Steering_2.html https://autozine.org/technical_school/traction/Steering_2.ht... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Allegro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Allegro
Retric 6y ago
It’s likely this is a bad idea, but the interface is only half the equation. We’re looking at form factor not the actual implication. Personally I was expecting their autopilot rollout to be a safety disaster, similarly I assumed forgoing a dashboard would be a huge issue, so having been proven wrong before I am simply reserving judgement.

stretchcat 6y ago

So now Tesla is said to be innovating when they adopt old technology invented by others? Truly Tesla is the Apple of cars, getting credit for old shit just because the fanboys know little about the domain outside their favored brand.

josefresco 6y ago
>So now Tesla is said to be innovating when they adopt old technology invented by others? You mean like ... an electric car? Listen to yourself: "Tesla is the Apple of cars" They took something that already existed (electric cars), re-engineered it and created something truly innovative. "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."
- stretchcat 6y ago
  In your eagerness to paint me as a hypocrite, you forgot one important little detail: I never implied Tesla invented electric cars. No clue what that cmdrtaco quote has anything to do with this conversation, but let me be clear here: you're the one giving Telsa credit for things they didn't do, not me.

avs733 6y ago

variable rate steering racks absolutely exist - early 2000s BMW 5 series and honda S2000 are the ones off the top of my head. They are not common. Mostly nowadays a similar effect is created via variable assist. Human interface-wise, nonlinear controls are REALLY not a great idea without specific training. If you look at airplanes, where pilots are type rated, you have a lot more controls mixing with electronic flight controls and various regimes. The yoke/stick might control pitch at one point, angle of attack at another, altitude in another, and control surface deflection in another...or more realistically a mix of all of the above. Multiply by 6 dimensions of control. I think about my mother. Recently we rented a Subaru Outback. I was comfortable with the minor force/lane centering control actions it took while on cruise control. She on the other hand couldn't handle it - it became a negative feedback loop. It woudl correct her into the cetner of the lane, and she responded to it as 'the car pulling' and would over react and put us in the next lane. The car correcting itself was disconcerting and provoked a corresponding reaction that was programmed in her brain as 'correct' because the heuristic was 'force through the wheel = something wrong'. The issue here isn't whether the car does something good or bad, it is whether it does something that the average driver reacts to in a safe an appropriate way. That comes from meeting their preconceptions as to how steering behaves, unless Tesla wants to argue for type-certing their owners.