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> Ah, because countries with Islamic finance are renowned for the strength of their economies. As opposed to the Western world and its traditional decennial wo

by hh3k0 6y ago

> Ah, because countries with Islamic finance are renowned for the strength of their economies. As opposed to the Western world and its traditional decennial world-threatening financial crisis? And the ever-widening gap between rich and poor?

scatters 6y ago
The fact that the West's economic crises - which, viewed in the long term, are bumps in a continual upward trend - can threaten the economy of the world as a whole is testament to the strength of its economic model. And the gap between rich and poor is ever-shrinking, not widening, as poor countries develop by adopting modern technologies and institutions.
- gher-shyu3i 6y ago
  It doesn't change the fact that the modern financial and economic system are morally bankrupt. We don't learn from our mistakes, and it becomes normal to have these cycles of collapse then build back. These cycles are caused by interest/usury being at the core that drives the system (why did the government move away from the gold standard? because they want to be able to print their way out of their usurious debts, it's all related). Look up Iraq during Umar II's rule, how there were no people left to take Zakat because there was a proper economic system.
  - scatters 6y ago
    We do learn from our mistakes, which allows us to make new mistakes. We learned how to free our currencies from their chains of gold and allowed the money supply to respond to the demands of the economy. We learned how inflation is a monetary phenomenon and tamed it with interest rates. We learned how the business cycle propagates itself and introduced countercyclical policies to damp it down. We found that the Great Moderation promoted speculation in real estate, causing the GFC, and responded to that with stress tests and capital buffers in our financial institutions. We have come through a pandemic with our economy running, jobs preserved and society intact. I can't wait to see what the next crisis will be, because the solution will make us even smarter and wealthier.
    - gher-shyu3i 6y ago
      > We learned how inflation is a monetary phenomenon and tamed it with interest rates Fix one mistake with another mistake? Plus, it's the other way around, interest rates cause more inflation (how else is the government going to pay its debts?). It's a cyclic phenomenon. Without interest, inflation would be a much less problem. Secondly, freeing currencies from gold is another mistake because it allows the government to devalue its currency at will, we've see the chaos that comes out of it. Hopefully bitcoin and gang will fix that mistake, but we're already seeing the big banks not liking it because it will take away their power to control the people. > We found that the Great Moderation promoted speculation in real estate, causing the GFC, Which would have never happened if we were following proper economic laws which we've literally known about for over 1400 years. Mortages and selling debt for debt are both prohibited Islamically. We already know it's wrong, yet people keep engaging it it because a few rich and powerful will benefit at the expense of everyone else. The solution is to go back to a sound economic system, not to anticipate the next crash because it's built in to how the modern system works.
      - scatters 6y ago
        Oh, dear. Money isn't created by governments; it's created by banks (and, given demand, shadow banks). Raising interest rates reduces the stock of viable projects thereby reducing lending and money creation, which halts inflation. This is trivial stuff. The laws of millennia ago were appropriate for their time but would be hilariously ill matched to today's world. Look at Turkey to see where that takes you.
        gher-shyu3i 6y ago
        > it's created by banks They work in tandem with the government obviously. > Raising interest rates reduces the stock of viable projects thereby reducing lending and money creation, which halts inflation. This is trivial stuff. Setting interest rates to 0 also heavily reduces lending because no one would be incentivized anymore to lend as they're not getting any benefit. This is why in Islam, lending is purely an act of charity since the lender can in no way shape or form be contractually owed any sort of benefit, monetary or otherwise. This is proven to work up to even recent times before everyone was forced by the West to succumb to their dangerous economic practices. Claiming that these ideas are only suitable for millenia ago is outright false.

by hh3k0 6y ago

scatters 6y ago

The fact that the West's economic crises - which, viewed in the long term, are bumps in a continual upward trend - can threaten the economy of the world as a whole is testament to the strength of its economic model. And the gap between rich and poor is ever-shrinking, not widening, as poor countries develop by adopting modern technologies and institutions.

gher-shyu3i 6y ago
It doesn't change the fact that the modern financial and economic system are morally bankrupt. We don't learn from our mistakes, and it becomes normal to have these cycles of collapse then build back. These cycles are caused by interest/usury being at the core that drives the system (why did the government move away from the gold standard? because they want to be able to print their way out of their usurious debts, it's all related). Look up Iraq during Umar II's rule, how there were no people left to take Zakat because there was a proper economic system.
- scatters 6y ago
  We do learn from our mistakes, which allows us to make new mistakes. We learned how to free our currencies from their chains of gold and allowed the money supply to respond to the demands of the economy. We learned how inflation is a monetary phenomenon and tamed it with interest rates. We learned how the business cycle propagates itself and introduced countercyclical policies to damp it down. We found that the Great Moderation promoted speculation in real estate, causing the GFC, and responded to that with stress tests and capital buffers in our financial institutions. We have come through a pandemic with our economy running, jobs preserved and society intact. I can't wait to see what the next crisis will be, because the solution will make us even smarter and wealthier.
  - gher-shyu3i 6y ago
    > We learned how inflation is a monetary phenomenon and tamed it with interest rates Fix one mistake with another mistake? Plus, it's the other way around, interest rates cause more inflation (how else is the government going to pay its debts?). It's a cyclic phenomenon. Without interest, inflation would be a much less problem. Secondly, freeing currencies from gold is another mistake because it allows the government to devalue its currency at will, we've see the chaos that comes out of it. Hopefully bitcoin and gang will fix that mistake, but we're already seeing the big banks not liking it because it will take away their power to control the people. > We found that the Great Moderation promoted speculation in real estate, causing the GFC, Which would have never happened if we were following proper economic laws which we've literally known about for over 1400 years. Mortages and selling debt for debt are both prohibited Islamically. We already know it's wrong, yet people keep engaging it it because a few rich and powerful will benefit at the expense of everyone else. The solution is to go back to a sound economic system, not to anticipate the next crash because it's built in to how the modern system works.
    - scatters 6y ago
      Oh, dear. Money isn't created by governments; it's created by banks (and, given demand, shadow banks). Raising interest rates reduces the stock of viable projects thereby reducing lending and money creation, which halts inflation. This is trivial stuff. The laws of millennia ago were appropriate for their time but would be hilariously ill matched to today's world. Look at Turkey to see where that takes you.
      - gher-shyu3i 6y ago
        > it's created by banks They work in tandem with the government obviously. > Raising interest rates reduces the stock of viable projects thereby reducing lending and money creation, which halts inflation. This is trivial stuff. Setting interest rates to 0 also heavily reduces lending because no one would be incentivized anymore to lend as they're not getting any benefit. This is why in Islam, lending is purely an act of charity since the lender can in no way shape or form be contractually owed any sort of benefit, monetary or otherwise. This is proven to work up to even recent times before everyone was forced by the West to succumb to their dangerous economic practices. Claiming that these ideas are only suitable for millenia ago is outright false.