5 ms·

Ah, because countries with Islamic finance are renowned for the strength of their economies. The Catholic Church prohibited usury across Europe until the inven

Ah, because countries with Islamic finance are renowned for the strength of their economies. The Catholic Church prohibited usury across Europe until the invention of the contractum trinius, allowing the economic revolution that powered the Renaissance and the transition to modernity.

gher-shyu3i 6y ago
Correlation vs causation. If you look at Iraq during the Ummayad dynasty (Umar II), there was a period of time when there were no poor people left to take charity (Zakat). Would be nice to see that again in "modern" financial economies.
hh3k0 6y ago
> Ah, because countries with Islamic finance are renowned for the strength of their economies. As opposed to the Western world and its traditional decennial world-threatening financial crisis? And the ever-widening gap between rich and poor?
- scatters 6y ago
  The fact that the West's economic crises - which, viewed in the long term, are bumps in a continual upward trend - can threaten the economy of the world as a whole is testament to the strength of its economic model. And the gap between rich and poor is ever-shrinking, not widening, as poor countries develop by adopting modern technologies and institutions.
  - gher-shyu3i 6y ago
    It doesn't change the fact that the modern financial and economic system are morally bankrupt. We don't learn from our mistakes, and it becomes normal to have these cycles of collapse then build back. These cycles are caused by interest/usury being at the core that drives the system (why did the government move away from the gold standard? because they want to be able to print their way out of their usurious debts, it's all related). Look up Iraq during Umar II's rule, how there were no people left to take Zakat because there was a proper economic system.
    - scatters 6y ago
      We do learn from our mistakes, which allows us to make new mistakes. We learned how to free our currencies from their chains of gold and allowed the money supply to respond to the demands of the economy. We learned how inflation is a monetary phenomenon and tamed it with interest rates. We learned how the business cycle propagates itself and introduced countercyclical policies to damp it down. We found that the Great Moderation promoted speculation in real estate, causing the GFC, and responded to that with stress tests and capital buffers in our financial institutions. We have come through a pandemic with our economy running, jobs preserved and society intact. I can't wait to see what the next crisis will be, because the solution will make us even smarter and wealthier.
      - gher-shyu3i 6y ago
        > We learned how inflation is a monetary phenomenon and tamed it with interest rates Fix one mistake with another mistake? Plus, it's the other way around, interest rates cause more inflation (how else is the government going to pay its debts?). It's a cyclic phenomenon. Without interest, inflation would be a much less problem. Secondly, freeing currencies from gold is another mistake because it allows the government to devalue its currency at will, we've see the chaos that comes out of it. Hopefully bitcoin and gang will fix that mistake, but we're already seeing the big banks not liking it because it will take away their power to control the people. > We found that the Great Moderation promoted speculation in real estate, causing the GFC, Which would have never happened if we were following proper economic laws which we've literally known about for over 1400 years. Mortages and selling debt for debt are both prohibited Islamically. We already know it's wrong, yet people keep engaging it it because a few rich and powerful will benefit at the expense of everyone else. The solution is to go back to a sound economic system, not to anticipate the next crash because it's built in to how the modern system works.
        scatters 6y ago
        Oh, dear. Money isn't created by governments; it's created by banks (and, given demand, shadow banks). Raising interest rates reduces the stock of viable projects thereby reducing lending and money creation, which halts inflation. This is trivial stuff. The laws of millennia ago were appropriate for their time but would be hilariously ill matched to today's world. Look at Turkey to see where that takes you.

gher-shyu3i 6y ago

Correlation vs causation. If you look at Iraq during the Ummayad dynasty (Umar II), there was a period of time when there were no poor people left to take charity (Zakat). Would be nice to see that again in "modern" financial economies.

hh3k0 6y ago

> Ah, because countries with Islamic finance are renowned for the strength of their economies. As opposed to the Western world and its traditional decennial world-threatening financial crisis? And the ever-widening gap between rich and poor?

scatters 6y ago
The fact that the West's economic crises - which, viewed in the long term, are bumps in a continual upward trend - can threaten the economy of the world as a whole is testament to the strength of its economic model. And the gap between rich and poor is ever-shrinking, not widening, as poor countries develop by adopting modern technologies and institutions.
- gher-shyu3i 6y ago
  It doesn't change the fact that the modern financial and economic system are morally bankrupt. We don't learn from our mistakes, and it becomes normal to have these cycles of collapse then build back. These cycles are caused by interest/usury being at the core that drives the system (why did the government move away from the gold standard? because they want to be able to print their way out of their usurious debts, it's all related). Look up Iraq during Umar II's rule, how there were no people left to take Zakat because there was a proper economic system.
  - scatters 6y ago
    We do learn from our mistakes, which allows us to make new mistakes. We learned how to free our currencies from their chains of gold and allowed the money supply to respond to the demands of the economy. We learned how inflation is a monetary phenomenon and tamed it with interest rates. We learned how the business cycle propagates itself and introduced countercyclical policies to damp it down. We found that the Great Moderation promoted speculation in real estate, causing the GFC, and responded to that with stress tests and capital buffers in our financial institutions. We have come through a pandemic with our economy running, jobs preserved and society intact. I can't wait to see what the next crisis will be, because the solution will make us even smarter and wealthier.
    - gher-shyu3i 6y ago
      > We learned how inflation is a monetary phenomenon and tamed it with interest rates Fix one mistake with another mistake? Plus, it's the other way around, interest rates cause more inflation (how else is the government going to pay its debts?). It's a cyclic phenomenon. Without interest, inflation would be a much less problem. Secondly, freeing currencies from gold is another mistake because it allows the government to devalue its currency at will, we've see the chaos that comes out of it. Hopefully bitcoin and gang will fix that mistake, but we're already seeing the big banks not liking it because it will take away their power to control the people. > We found that the Great Moderation promoted speculation in real estate, causing the GFC, Which would have never happened if we were following proper economic laws which we've literally known about for over 1400 years. Mortages and selling debt for debt are both prohibited Islamically. We already know it's wrong, yet people keep engaging it it because a few rich and powerful will benefit at the expense of everyone else. The solution is to go back to a sound economic system, not to anticipate the next crash because it's built in to how the modern system works.
      - scatters 6y ago
        Oh, dear. Money isn't created by governments; it's created by banks (and, given demand, shadow banks). Raising interest rates reduces the stock of viable projects thereby reducing lending and money creation, which halts inflation. This is trivial stuff. The laws of millennia ago were appropriate for their time but would be hilariously ill matched to today's world. Look at Turkey to see where that takes you.