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Intent is very important and this keeps being lost on the layman crowd. If I go to a widely publicized open forum and say: "Let's go and squeeze the shorts so t

Intent is very important and this keeps being lost on the layman crowd. If I go to a widely publicized open forum and say: "Let's go and squeeze the shorts so that they go bankrupt, oh and here's a picture of me doing just that." that's market manipulation and in many corners of the world, that's illegal. As in, you go to jail illegal. If I short a stock because I genuinely believe it's overpriced, that's perfectly legal. Beyond this, I'm sure there are many funds who try and successfully manipulate the markets, but they try to do it quietly. To do in blatantly in the open is basically rubbing it in the regulators face and giving them no choice but to crack down. Nobody would notice a bunch of idiots doing this quietly. A 1 million strong mob hivemind will get noticed and will leave no choice for regulators but to come down hard on them. This is not rocket science. It's the same sort of crowd who planned to storm the capitol, meticulously documented the evidence, posted it online (including confirmation of identity through driving licenses) and then went ahead and did the deed. They basically handed all the evidence to the feds on a silver platter.

SuoDuanDao 6y ago
What is the difference between your argument and a saying "the big boys know how to benefit from the corruption inherent in the system and the regulators would rather persecute a bunch of powerless people than confront the corruption in their own industry"?
- short_sells_poo 6y ago
  This is not about knowing how to benefit from corruption. This is like basic common sense. I'm not engaging in whataboutism or trying to excuse bad behavior. Market abuse, including market manipulation should be punished irrespective of who is doing it. I was pointing out the fact that if you go and do it and then brag about it in a public forum, don't be surprised that you get dinged. It's literally like robbing a bank and then going to the police to hand in the video evidence, only to be surprised when the policemen are not impressed. Yes the big guys should be prosecuted. But perhaps if you didn't explicitly stand on the corner shouting "I'm going to rob a bank and all you guys should also rob banks", the authorities wouldn't be on to you.
  - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
    I really don't see how taking advantage of an excessively-shorted stock is market manipulation. I've been on the right side of two short squeezes last year purely by accident, and I'd certainly like to repeat the experience if I could. What exactly would be illegal if I was on the right side of a short squeeze on purpose? Predicting it? holding stocks until it happened? Explaining to people less experienced than myself how a short squeeze works? You say 'intent' but what intent is discussed on these message boards that is so nefarious people with better Lawyers don't discuss it openly?
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
It is obvious from your comment you are the laymen, it is very tiring hearing accusations of criminality from you when you get lost in the basics. You seem to be the kind of folks that the headlines 'Nazis and white supremasists are buying gamestop' are designed for. Stock can be bough for reasons that have nothing to do with it's market value. I can buy a stock because i want to own it, maybe i want the voting rights, maybe i want to have standing so that i can file a lawsuit for securities fraud. Maybe i am planning hostile takeover. Maybe I want to proudly hang it at my door.
- short_sells_poo 6y ago
  What the hell are you on about? For once, you know nothing about me and second, you are attacking a strawman. I said nothing about there being only one legitimate reason to trade a stock. I am fully aware that you can buy or sell stocks for a myriad reasons, including meming. What is against the rules is trading stocks with the express intent of manipulating the market and deliberately squeezing other participants. This is exactly what was being pushed by WSB. If you want to engage in adult debate, please refrain from personal accusations and strawmen.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    Perhaps I was a bit unfair, but I do believe that your accusations of criminality are unfunded. Noone credible has yet called it fraud, and if indeed it was, authorities would have stepped in long time ago. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2021-01-28/gamestop-frenzy-is-not-fraud-columbia-professor-video https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2021-01-28/gamestop-fr...

SuoDuanDao 6y ago

What is the difference between your argument and a saying "the big boys know how to benefit from the corruption inherent in the system and the regulators would rather persecute a bunch of powerless people than confront the corruption in their own industry"?

short_sells_poo 6y ago
This is not about knowing how to benefit from corruption. This is like basic common sense. I'm not engaging in whataboutism or trying to excuse bad behavior. Market abuse, including market manipulation should be punished irrespective of who is doing it. I was pointing out the fact that if you go and do it and then brag about it in a public forum, don't be surprised that you get dinged. It's literally like robbing a bank and then going to the police to hand in the video evidence, only to be surprised when the policemen are not impressed. Yes the big guys should be prosecuted. But perhaps if you didn't explicitly stand on the corner shouting "I'm going to rob a bank and all you guys should also rob banks", the authorities wouldn't be on to you.
- SuoDuanDao 6y ago
  I really don't see how taking advantage of an excessively-shorted stock is market manipulation. I've been on the right side of two short squeezes last year purely by accident, and I'd certainly like to repeat the experience if I could. What exactly would be illegal if I was on the right side of a short squeeze on purpose? Predicting it? holding stocks until it happened? Explaining to people less experienced than myself how a short squeeze works? You say 'intent' but what intent is discussed on these message boards that is so nefarious people with better Lawyers don't discuss it openly?

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

It is obvious from your comment you are the laymen, it is very tiring hearing accusations of criminality from you when you get lost in the basics. You seem to be the kind of folks that the headlines 'Nazis and white supremasists are buying gamestop' are designed for. Stock can be bough for reasons that have nothing to do with it's market value. I can buy a stock because i want to own it, maybe i want the voting rights, maybe i want to have standing so that i can file a lawsuit for securities fraud. Maybe i am planning hostile takeover. Maybe I want to proudly hang it at my door.

short_sells_poo 6y ago
What the hell are you on about? For once, you know nothing about me and second, you are attacking a strawman. I said nothing about there being only one legitimate reason to trade a stock. I am fully aware that you can buy or sell stocks for a myriad reasons, including meming. What is against the rules is trading stocks with the express intent of manipulating the market and deliberately squeezing other participants. This is exactly what was being pushed by WSB. If you want to engage in adult debate, please refrain from personal accusations and strawmen.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  Perhaps I was a bit unfair, but I do believe that your accusations of criminality are unfunded. Noone credible has yet called it fraud, and if indeed it was, authorities would have stepped in long time ago. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2021-01-28/gamestop-frenzy-is-not-fraud-columbia-professor-video https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2021-01-28/gamestop-fr...