4 ms·

I'm sorry but this is a possibly irresponsible take for at least a few reasons. The populism on this issue is completely out of touch with reality. 1) As the

by jariel 6y ago

I'm sorry but this is a possibly irresponsible take for at least a few reasons. The populism on this issue is completely out of touch with reality. 1) As the stock pops due to irrational upwards pressure - the hedges funds might lose a bit, but in reality a lot of 'regular people' will be left holding the bag. When the stock inevitably crashes, those 'regular people' will lose a lot and it will probably be a more meaningful loss to them. 2) There is no easy way to make money doing this - you're literally promoting a collective ponzi scheme (!) whereby the only money made is by people putting more money in. 3) Bankers have a role to play in markets and that's by properly valuing them. Obviously there are tons of shenanigans, but otherwise, it's an essential role. 'Pumping and dumping stocks' is not value creating it's actually quite destructive. While Game Stop may appreciate being helped in some way, they are not going to appreciate their stock going insanely volatile. Why do you think they would actually want this? The populism on this issue is really out of hand. "So it's simple to discover and execute, and there is a financial incentive, " - please - no, this is completely irresponsible.

ballenf 6y ago
What about retail investors who looked at Gamestop before all this and thought it seemed like a reasonable investment, only to get wiped out by "irrational downward pressure" from hedge funds conspiring to short the stock 136%? We'll have to wait and see a bit, but the huge pop in Gamestock was likely more the result of funds covering shorts, not retail investors continuing to buy at these prices. So it feels really disingenuous to blame retail for these wild swings when they would not have been possible without the irresponsible hedge fund trading that came before.
- fractionalhare 6y ago
  Hedge funds don't need to conspire for short interest to go over 100%. If a business is widely considered a viable short target, it usually just happens through regular market mechanics. Everyone wants to borrow it to sell it short, and they may end up borrowing it from someone who already bought it from a short seller.
philistine 6y ago
With regards to number one, what will happen is exactly the reverse of what you’re saying. Hedge funds have shorted more of the stock than exists. That means that when they decide to buy back the stock to close their shorts, they will need to buy every single stock of the company, return it to the people who lent them their stock, and those people will have to now sell it, so they can buy it again to return it to other people. It won’t happen in minutes either, it will take days for this to happen. That’s why everybody is going crazy about this. WSB saw a perfect situation and exploited it. This isn’t a case where the stock will drop in mere minutes.
- jariel 6y ago
  No, the funds will take a haircut and move on, they likely already have. The crash will be worse, and it will affect people personally - the plebes are going to lose a lot of money on this one in a few days when the market moves on. That it will take days to unwind doesn't really matter - it will top out at some point, and it will go down. The timeframe is less relevant.
davewritescode 6y ago
What about all the people who lost jobs at GameStop when the board got pissed the stock was in the toilet? You have a case of a hedge fund that was playing games to manipulate the price of a stock downward for a quick 400% profit the last few years with what appears to be no hedge on the other side of the bet. They could've bough calls to offset potential losses but they didn't because that wouldn't have meant such impressive gains. People who should've known better got caught with their pants down and I have absolutely no sympathy for hedge funds.
- jariel 6y ago
  I'm not defending shenanigans. I'm saying populist shenanigans don't really defeat banker shenanigans.
jug 6y ago
> "So it's simple to discover and execute, and there is a financial incentive, " - please - no, this is completely irresponsible. Do you refute my claim that it's simple to discover and execute? They're essentially just banding together on public information here. GameStop, Blackberry, Nokia, AMC, they're all affected and I'm just counting days of developments here. As for the financial incentive, it is _absolutely_ driving this behavior. The taste of cash. Most will of course lose money on this, but this is not my point. My point? There is a financial incentive! I'm not talking about morale or ethics, I'm talking about why I think this might be a watershed moment. The masses realizing this is at all possible. Hell, throwing away cash on lotteries is also a terrible way to build fortunes, yet it's a massive industry and lives are ruined over this as well.

by jariel 6y ago

ballenf 6y ago

What about retail investors who looked at Gamestop before all this and thought it seemed like a reasonable investment, only to get wiped out by "irrational downward pressure" from hedge funds conspiring to short the stock 136%? We'll have to wait and see a bit, but the huge pop in Gamestock was likely more the result of funds covering shorts, not retail investors continuing to buy at these prices. So it feels really disingenuous to blame retail for these wild swings when they would not have been possible without the irresponsible hedge fund trading that came before.

fractionalhare 6y ago
Hedge funds don't need to conspire for short interest to go over 100%. If a business is widely considered a viable short target, it usually just happens through regular market mechanics. Everyone wants to borrow it to sell it short, and they may end up borrowing it from someone who already bought it from a short seller.

philistine 6y ago

With regards to number one, what will happen is exactly the reverse of what you’re saying. Hedge funds have shorted more of the stock than exists. That means that when they decide to buy back the stock to close their shorts, they will need to buy every single stock of the company, return it to the people who lent them their stock, and those people will have to now sell it, so they can buy it again to return it to other people. It won’t happen in minutes either, it will take days for this to happen. That’s why everybody is going crazy about this. WSB saw a perfect situation and exploited it. This isn’t a case where the stock will drop in mere minutes.

jariel 6y ago
No, the funds will take a haircut and move on, they likely already have. The crash will be worse, and it will affect people personally - the plebes are going to lose a lot of money on this one in a few days when the market moves on. That it will take days to unwind doesn't really matter - it will top out at some point, and it will go down. The timeframe is less relevant.

davewritescode 6y ago

What about all the people who lost jobs at GameStop when the board got pissed the stock was in the toilet? You have a case of a hedge fund that was playing games to manipulate the price of a stock downward for a quick 400% profit the last few years with what appears to be no hedge on the other side of the bet. They could've bough calls to offset potential losses but they didn't because that wouldn't have meant such impressive gains. People who should've known better got caught with their pants down and I have absolutely no sympathy for hedge funds.

jariel 6y ago
I'm not defending shenanigans. I'm saying populist shenanigans don't really defeat banker shenanigans.

jug 6y ago

> "So it's simple to discover and execute, and there is a financial incentive, " - please - no, this is completely irresponsible. Do you refute my claim that it's simple to discover and execute? They're essentially just banding together on public information here. GameStop, Blackberry, Nokia, AMC, they're all affected and I'm just counting days of developments here. As for the financial incentive, it is _absolutely_ driving this behavior. The taste of cash. Most will of course lose money on this, but this is not my point. My point? There is a financial incentive! I'm not talking about morale or ethics, I'm talking about why I think this might be a watershed moment. The masses realizing this is at all possible. Hell, throwing away cash on lotteries is also a terrible way to build fortunes, yet it's a massive industry and lives are ruined over this as well.