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Catch it now, while there are still a few butterflies left to watch. I don't know if my kids have ever seen a butterfly. Scary, considering I'm from a Manhatta

Catch it now, while there are still a few butterflies left to watch. I don't know if my kids have ever seen a butterfly. Scary, considering I'm from a Manhattan slum, and I still saw plenty of them (and moths, and ticks - which my brother picked up in a city park) growing up.

jojobas 6y ago
Plenty of 2020 photos and videos of butterflies from Central Park still.
forgotmypw17 6y ago
Here's the scariest part for us about the insect decline, in my opinion: We are in the process of birthing, bootstrapping, giving autonomy to beings who are relative to us in power as we are to insects. We can barely even form a concept of just how much of us they can see, and to what extent they know our thoughts and actions. And we are training, teaching these beings how to behave with our own behavior. Just as with children, "do as I say, not as I do", is not very effective past a certain point. Not that what we say is that much better than what we do. Most people consider insects and even most mammals to be largely irrelevant, and not worth considering in most decisions, dumb weak automatons, out-evolved and bottom of the food chain, worth thinking about only if they provide some useful resource. Our general policy of disregard and often outright extermination without cause is, beyond appalling, is downright frightful when extrapolated to its effects on ourselves in the future... For those saying butterflies still exist: Yes, they still exist. But I've yet to talk to any person who pays attention to insects and nature, who's lived in the same place for a while, who has not reported a decline in insects of all kinds, from ladybugs, to butterflies, to lightning bugs, to our long-time symbiotic friends the mosquitoes, beetles, even cockroaches. Not just a decline, but a change from "used to be swarming with e.g. ladybugs once a year, to, they still show up in some numbers. We're like a kid left home alone for the summer a little too young and irresponsible just wrecking the house, putting holes in the walls, letting the tub run over, shorting out the electric, leaving the fridge open, throwing food onto the walls, without anyone to stop us.
- KMag 6y ago
  > our long-time symbiotic friends the mosquitoes, beetles, even cockroaches. I was with you up until there. In what way is our relationship with mosquitoes symbiotic?
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    I had a feeling I'd get a reaction with that one. I can't reply to this query quickly, give me a bit.
    - KMag 6y ago
      Don't get me wrong; I don't hate mosquitoes. I grew up with a wetland in my back yard, and got bitten enough during my wilderness survival merit badge course that I no longer swell or itch when I get bitten. However, my understanding is that there are no species that feed exclusively or even mostly on human-biting mosquitoes. I've been told the environmental impact of human-biting mosquitoes going extinct would be minor, though, dramatically reducing human morbidity and mortality in some poorer countries would have indirect environmental impact.
      - forgotmypw17 6y ago
        Malaria aside, our bodies are fine-tuned for many factors which all trigger many different mechanisms. It's a very complicated system, grown organically and additively over the course of many hundreds of millions of years. As any software maintainers will tell you, even with a system merely several years in existence, anytime you provide different inputs you have not tried before, e.g. taking mosquitoes out of the equation completely, you increase the chance of different, unexpected, output. This is general theory, but I've come across quite a bit of research suggesting that all the parasites we've been living with for millenia are crucial to priming and functioning of our immune system. I haven't seen anything about mosquitoes specifically yet, but I've seen it for leeches, lice, and worms. Mosquitoes are even more prevalent in our biome, so even more likely to be essential. We did not grow up in a sterile world, all these other beings have been growing up alongside us this whole time.
KMag 6y ago
There was a wetland in my back yard as a kid in Minnesota, where a swamp milkweed[0] grew. Monarch butterflies only lay their eggs on milkweed, and their larvae feed on milkweed, so I've seen plenty of Monarch butterflies and caterpillars. In the late 1980s/early 1990s, I remember the local nature center giving a demonstration on their work to tag and study Monarchs using small stickers on their wings. It hard for me to fathom that Monarch butterflies are likely to be declared at-risk soon. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepias_incarnata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepias_incarnata

jojobas 6y ago

Plenty of 2020 photos and videos of butterflies from Central Park still.

forgotmypw17 6y ago

Here's the scariest part for us about the insect decline, in my opinion: We are in the process of birthing, bootstrapping, giving autonomy to beings who are relative to us in power as we are to insects. We can barely even form a concept of just how much of us they can see, and to what extent they know our thoughts and actions. And we are training, teaching these beings how to behave with our own behavior. Just as with children, "do as I say, not as I do", is not very effective past a certain point. Not that what we say is that much better than what we do. Most people consider insects and even most mammals to be largely irrelevant, and not worth considering in most decisions, dumb weak automatons, out-evolved and bottom of the food chain, worth thinking about only if they provide some useful resource. Our general policy of disregard and often outright extermination without cause is, beyond appalling, is downright frightful when extrapolated to its effects on ourselves in the future... For those saying butterflies still exist: Yes, they still exist. But I've yet to talk to any person who pays attention to insects and nature, who's lived in the same place for a while, who has not reported a decline in insects of all kinds, from ladybugs, to butterflies, to lightning bugs, to our long-time symbiotic friends the mosquitoes, beetles, even cockroaches. Not just a decline, but a change from "used to be swarming with e.g. ladybugs once a year, to, they still show up in some numbers. We're like a kid left home alone for the summer a little too young and irresponsible just wrecking the house, putting holes in the walls, letting the tub run over, shorting out the electric, leaving the fridge open, throwing food onto the walls, without anyone to stop us.

KMag 6y ago
> our long-time symbiotic friends the mosquitoes, beetles, even cockroaches. I was with you up until there. In what way is our relationship with mosquitoes symbiotic?
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  I had a feeling I'd get a reaction with that one. I can't reply to this query quickly, give me a bit.
  - KMag 6y ago
    Don't get me wrong; I don't hate mosquitoes. I grew up with a wetland in my back yard, and got bitten enough during my wilderness survival merit badge course that I no longer swell or itch when I get bitten. However, my understanding is that there are no species that feed exclusively or even mostly on human-biting mosquitoes. I've been told the environmental impact of human-biting mosquitoes going extinct would be minor, though, dramatically reducing human morbidity and mortality in some poorer countries would have indirect environmental impact.
    - forgotmypw17 6y ago
      Malaria aside, our bodies are fine-tuned for many factors which all trigger many different mechanisms. It's a very complicated system, grown organically and additively over the course of many hundreds of millions of years. As any software maintainers will tell you, even with a system merely several years in existence, anytime you provide different inputs you have not tried before, e.g. taking mosquitoes out of the equation completely, you increase the chance of different, unexpected, output. This is general theory, but I've come across quite a bit of research suggesting that all the parasites we've been living with for millenia are crucial to priming and functioning of our immune system. I haven't seen anything about mosquitoes specifically yet, but I've seen it for leeches, lice, and worms. Mosquitoes are even more prevalent in our biome, so even more likely to be essential. We did not grow up in a sterile world, all these other beings have been growing up alongside us this whole time.

KMag 6y ago

There was a wetland in my back yard as a kid in Minnesota, where a swamp milkweed[0] grew. Monarch butterflies only lay their eggs on milkweed, and their larvae feed on milkweed, so I've seen plenty of Monarch butterflies and caterpillars. In the late 1980s/early 1990s, I remember the local nature center giving a demonstration on their work to tag and study Monarchs using small stickers on their wings. It hard for me to fathom that Monarch butterflies are likely to be declared at-risk soon. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepias_incarnata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepias_incarnata