4 ms·
To be clear about the "(2014)", although Knuth gave this talk in 2014, this transcript of the talk is from the upcoming (February 2021) issue of Communications
by svat 6y ago
To be clear about the "(2014)", although Knuth gave this talk in 2014, this transcript of the talk is from the upcoming (February 2021) issue of Communications of the ACM.
The whole sequence of articles/talks is interesting:
- (2007, Martin Campbell-Kelly), "The History of the History of Software" (DOI: 10.1109/MAHC.2007.4407444 )
— the trigger for what follows.
- (2014, Donald Knuth): "Let's Not Dumb Down the History of Computer Science". Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAXdDEQveKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAXdDEQveKw Transcript: this submission (As mentioned, there was also a 2009 talk at Greenwich of which I can only find a 6-minute video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKUg0V7pt8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKUg0V7pt8o)
- (2014, Martin Campbell-Kelly): "Knuth and the Spectrum of History": https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6880249 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6880249 (click on PDF)
- (2015, Thomas Haigh): "The Tears of Donald Knuth": https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2015/1/181633-the-tears-of-donald-knuth/fulltext https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2015/1/181633-the-tears-of-do...
The short version is that over the years, in all "history of X" fields other than history of mathematics, the proportion of papers with technical content—exactly what ideas did people come up with, and how, etc—has decreased, while historians have taken a turn towards broader social commentary. In this talk, Knuth explains why he finds this unfortunate and what value practitioners can get from history. (He also ends with examples of this kind of history waiting to be written.) In his reply, Haigh points out that if computer scientists want such history they'll have to write and fund such writing; historians as a field won't do it.
(Someone in the YouTube comments points out that military history is like this: there exist military historians writing technical history about things like the "terrain, weapon systems, tactics, strategy, etc", funded by the military, because members of the profession do care about this. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be much the case in computer science.)
BTW, here are a couple of papers that Knuth wrote himself, which I would guess is the kind of historical writing he'd like to read (rich in technical detail):
- Von Neumann's First Computer Program (1970): https://fermatslibrary.com/s/von-neumanns-first-computer-program https://fermatslibrary.com/s/von-neumanns-first-computer-pro...
- Ancient Babylonian algorithms (1972): http://www.realtechsupport.org/UB/NP/Numeracy_BabylonianAlgorithms_1977.pdf http://www.realtechsupport.org/UB/NP/Numeracy_BabylonianAlgo...
- The Early Development of Programming Languages (1976): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25717306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25717306
- gnud 6y agoWow, "Fermat's library" is horrible to read in. Luckily, the raw PDF is available at http://public.callutheran.edu/~reinhart/CSC521/Week3/KnuthVonNeumann.pdf http://public.callutheran.edu/~reinhart/CSC521/Week3/KnuthVo...
- cratermoon 6y agoThank you. I know many of these older papers aren't exactly in the best format, but Fermat violating basic usability by turning the perfectly good text into a bitmap format somehow ends up worse than a PDF.
- dalbasal 6y agoInteresting. I think it's a valid point/pursuit but somewhat sisyphean. Technical is harder to follow. That means fewer people will read it, even people who do have the skill to. Publishing is a medium, not entirely unlike HN or pop science books and has a media dynamic. I think history of X tends to go "accessible" in every field, with the counterexamples (eg mathematics) being exceptions. A HN article with lots of code is harder to read, digest and comment than an article about the business/societal implications of facebook's new policy on squirrels. Even people who do read the former, can read more of the latter more easily... so they do. Also, generalities tend to be more evocative than specifics. If there is a message to the "story" about small teams, outsiders, or other cultural element... that's engaging. Technical is necessarily specific, and a lot of actual invention is somewhat random... without a wider implication. I'm skeptical that "history of X" fields can really focus on what he wants them to focus on. The types of insights that he's looking for are, as he says himself, best found in primary sources. There will always be a limited supply of these, since people who write books and people who invent things overlap irregularly. On the positive side, since he seems to mostly want inspiration, a little can go a long way. Totally tangential... Military historians used to play a lot of "tactics," trying to recreate battles with board game pieces or whatnot. There are endless generations of such commentary on Roman vs Etruscan spear formations. The evolution of helmets or whatnot. I don't think we learn much from this.
- auggierose 6y agoSo, what Haigh is saying, what historians as a field do, is useless. I agree.