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> It becomes manipulation when its coordinated. Does this mean investment firms are inherently manipulative, since they coordinate investments for their invest

> It becomes manipulation when its coordinated. Does this mean investment firms are inherently manipulative, since they coordinate investments for their investors? They're doing the same thing - investing in bulk, hoping to catch the rising tide. When big investment firms and famous traders make announcements it affects the stock price too, you know. I'm not trying to be obtuse. I just don't see how you can make an objective distinction. I'd argue you could say everyone investing in TSLA is coordinating a pump-and-dump scheme as that stock is insanely overpriced as well.

rank0 6y ago
Yes I also think firms and famous traders manipulate the market. Yes hedge funds can also be manipulative. There is a clear difference in TSLA. People were not coordinated. They have been investing because they believe the company will grow and the stock will appreciate long term. GME is a bunch of people on reddit saying "guys if we all collectively buy, we can induce a short squeeze and artificially pump the stock price for a short period of time. Pour all your money in and diamond hand so we can get rich together." Then as it hits the mainstream, the smart people will cash out, and the dumb people will stay on the train and lose a ton of money. You really don't see the difference?
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  I don't think any sane person could possibly believe TSLA stock isn't overvalued, and yet people continue to invest and the stock continues to climb. There are multiple forums where people discuss nothing but Tesla, including some focused solely on the stock. Many financial wizards have talked specifically about TSLA and how it is a bad investment, such as David Einhorn, and many of the stockholders have been happy to rally to higher prices because Elon Musk tweets he wants to see a higher number. It seems like both stocks are targets of manipulation to me.
  - rank0 6y ago
    You're just being stubborn. TSLA investors are not relying on a short squeeze. You keep conveniently ignoring the short squeeze. The people who got into GME early are relying on marketing this David v Goliath falsehood so that they can jump off early and make a ton of money in a very short period. I suggest you read up on shorting and pump-dumps. TSLA investors believe the company is changing the world and has enormous growth opportunity.
    - Judgmentality 6y ago
      > You're just being stubborn. From my perspective, you're being willfully ignorant. > You keep conveniently ignoring the short squeeze. Are you honestly implying there is no short squeeze for TSLA? David Einhorn has written multiple articles on this very topic. https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/david-einhorn-greenlight-capital-re-tesla-mania-tech-bubble-shorts-2020-11-1029774530 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/david-einhor...
      - rank0 6y ago
        Short squeezes happen organically all the time. Its not that short squeeze = manipulation, its that WSB induced a short squeeze as a coordinated effort. A forum with 2 million members advertised and coordinated a massive purchase of shares. Gamestop's market cap was less than $900m at the time. Gamestop was shorted at %140 of its float. There were daily posts describing how the forum has enough collective capital to hold a significant portion of the company. None of that happened with Tesla. There isn't a community of millions all planning to buy Telsa at the same time for a 2 week period. Its not being championed as a noble cause for retail investors. How are you okay with this happening? The people who actually get hurt are gullible uneducated poor people that were promised a way to get rich quick and stick it to the global elite. Do you feel no sympathy for the victims of this scheme or any other MLM/ponzi "greater fool" bullshit?
- tremon 6y ago
  People were not coordinated Hasn't Musk been fined -repeatedly- by the FTC for doing exactly that?
  - rank0 6y ago
    No. He's not rallying people to buy TSLA and surge the price short term. He tweets other stupid things like claiming to take the company private at $420 and that the stock price is too high.
    - Judgmentality 6y ago
      This is objectively false. He was fined by the FTC for market manipulation. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/28/elon-musk-says-40m-tweet-tesla-was-worth-it-fines https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/28/elon-musk... It's okay to like Tesla but please don't spread lies.
      - rank0 6y ago
        Did you even read that article? That is exactly what I was referencing. He was fined for misleading investors not for coordinating a distributed group effort. Musk absolutely wanted to take Telsa private but was unable to and made an early announcement.

rank0 6y ago

Yes I also think firms and famous traders manipulate the market. Yes hedge funds can also be manipulative. There is a clear difference in TSLA. People were not coordinated. They have been investing because they believe the company will grow and the stock will appreciate long term. GME is a bunch of people on reddit saying "guys if we all collectively buy, we can induce a short squeeze and artificially pump the stock price for a short period of time. Pour all your money in and diamond hand so we can get rich together." Then as it hits the mainstream, the smart people will cash out, and the dumb people will stay on the train and lose a ton of money. You really don't see the difference?

Judgmentality 6y ago
I don't think any sane person could possibly believe TSLA stock isn't overvalued, and yet people continue to invest and the stock continues to climb. There are multiple forums where people discuss nothing but Tesla, including some focused solely on the stock. Many financial wizards have talked specifically about TSLA and how it is a bad investment, such as David Einhorn, and many of the stockholders have been happy to rally to higher prices because Elon Musk tweets he wants to see a higher number. It seems like both stocks are targets of manipulation to me.
- rank0 6y ago
  You're just being stubborn. TSLA investors are not relying on a short squeeze. You keep conveniently ignoring the short squeeze. The people who got into GME early are relying on marketing this David v Goliath falsehood so that they can jump off early and make a ton of money in a very short period. I suggest you read up on shorting and pump-dumps. TSLA investors believe the company is changing the world and has enormous growth opportunity.
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    > You're just being stubborn. From my perspective, you're being willfully ignorant. > You keep conveniently ignoring the short squeeze. Are you honestly implying there is no short squeeze for TSLA? David Einhorn has written multiple articles on this very topic. https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/david-einhorn-greenlight-capital-re-tesla-mania-tech-bubble-shorts-2020-11-1029774530 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/david-einhor...
    - rank0 6y ago
      Short squeezes happen organically all the time. Its not that short squeeze = manipulation, its that WSB induced a short squeeze as a coordinated effort. A forum with 2 million members advertised and coordinated a massive purchase of shares. Gamestop's market cap was less than $900m at the time. Gamestop was shorted at %140 of its float. There were daily posts describing how the forum has enough collective capital to hold a significant portion of the company. None of that happened with Tesla. There isn't a community of millions all planning to buy Telsa at the same time for a 2 week period. Its not being championed as a noble cause for retail investors. How are you okay with this happening? The people who actually get hurt are gullible uneducated poor people that were promised a way to get rich quick and stick it to the global elite. Do you feel no sympathy for the victims of this scheme or any other MLM/ponzi "greater fool" bullshit?
tremon 6y ago
People were not coordinated Hasn't Musk been fined -repeatedly- by the FTC for doing exactly that?
- rank0 6y ago
  No. He's not rallying people to buy TSLA and surge the price short term. He tweets other stupid things like claiming to take the company private at $420 and that the stock price is too high.
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    This is objectively false. He was fined by the FTC for market manipulation. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/28/elon-musk-says-40m-tweet-tesla-was-worth-it-fines https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/28/elon-musk... It's okay to like Tesla but please don't spread lies.
    - rank0 6y ago
      Did you even read that article? That is exactly what I was referencing. He was fined for misleading investors not for coordinating a distributed group effort. Musk absolutely wanted to take Telsa private but was unable to and made an early announcement.