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> You seem to be equating "is moral" with "moves prices towards the fundamental value of the underlying asset", which is an interesting position to take I didn

by darawk 6y ago

> You seem to be equating "is moral" with "moves prices towards the fundamental value of the underlying asset", which is an interesting position to take I didn't say anything about morality. This is a purely functional argument. When something is sold for its fundamental value, nobody loses. That's why its good for society for things to transact at their intrinsic value. > That being said, if you're worried about pushing prices away from fundamental value, how about negative crude prices? It was crude futures that were negative. Crude oil has storage costs. Those costs rarely overwhelm the value of the asset, but in particular circumstances they can. That is what happened when crude futures went negative. It seems illogical, but if you actually understand it, it all makes sense and fits neatly inside an intrinsic value narrative.

strken 6y ago
> I didn't say anything about morality. The original claim was that squeezing an ill-advised short wasn't less moral than deliberately collapsing a currency and taking $1bn of funds from a government, or engaging in sketchy HFT practices. You said "then you don't understand this, or any of the things listed", implying that you believe that squeezing the short WAS less moral. > Crude oil has storage costs. Those costs rarely overwhelm the value of the asset, but in particular circumstances they can. "Storage costs" is a convenient and inoffensive way to say "the few remaining buyers with enough spare capacity smelled blood in the water and were able to price gouge".
- darawk 6y ago
  > The original claim was that squeezing an ill-advised short wasn't less moral than deliberately collapsing a currency and taking $1bn of funds from a government, or engaging in sketchy HFT practices. You said "then you don't understand this, or any of the things listed", implying that you believe that squeezing the short WAS less moral. Sure. But you don't need morality to make the point. I will make that point though: things trading at their intrinsic value is more moral than not doing so, because it means nobody loses. > "Storage costs" is a convenient and inoffensive way to say "the few remaining buyers with enough spare capacity smelled blood in the water and were able to price gouge". Err. No. It means the storage capacity was completely gone, and people were scrambling to find new storage capacity. It doesn't seem like you're very familiar with how these things work.

by darawk 6y ago

strken 6y ago

> I didn't say anything about morality. The original claim was that squeezing an ill-advised short wasn't less moral than deliberately collapsing a currency and taking $1bn of funds from a government, or engaging in sketchy HFT practices. You said "then you don't understand this, or any of the things listed", implying that you believe that squeezing the short WAS less moral. > Crude oil has storage costs. Those costs rarely overwhelm the value of the asset, but in particular circumstances they can. "Storage costs" is a convenient and inoffensive way to say "the few remaining buyers with enough spare capacity smelled blood in the water and were able to price gouge".

darawk 6y ago
> The original claim was that squeezing an ill-advised short wasn't less moral than deliberately collapsing a currency and taking $1bn of funds from a government, or engaging in sketchy HFT practices. You said "then you don't understand this, or any of the things listed", implying that you believe that squeezing the short WAS less moral. Sure. But you don't need morality to make the point. I will make that point though: things trading at their intrinsic value is more moral than not doing so, because it means nobody loses. > "Storage costs" is a convenient and inoffensive way to say "the few remaining buyers with enough spare capacity smelled blood in the water and were able to price gouge". Err. No. It means the storage capacity was completely gone, and people were scrambling to find new storage capacity. It doesn't seem like you're very familiar with how these things work.