8 ms·

> On both Discord and Reddit, wallstreetbets users frequently refer to themselves collectively as “retards” and “autists,” and have been known to deploy the kin

by ng12 6y ago

> On both Discord and Reddit, wallstreetbets users frequently refer to themselves collectively as “retards” and “autists,” and have been known to deploy the kinds of racial slurs and deliberately offensive language that have become commonplace in 4chan-style posting forums. I read WSB daily for years and cannot recall a single usage of a racial slur. They definitely referred to themselves as autists/retards in a self-deprecating manner but that's hardly the same thing.

koheripbal 6y ago
This is one of the dangers of using "hate speech" as an nebulous term. You can then turn it around and use it as an excuse to ban whatever you want. I could easily read through any of the front page posts on Reddit, and find what I consider to be hate speech, and if I were in a position of power, I could just use that as a justification to ban the entire domain. Moreover, it easily allows adversaries the ability to plant hate speech in forums they dislike, and then pressure the authorities to ban it. At the end of the day, I am an adult, and I reject the notion that sites need to protect me from speech.
- cambalache 6y ago
  "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." Cardinal Richelieu (Alledgelly) A lesson this generation will have to learn again.
  - theinverseidea 6y ago
    Its terribly sad, and equally confusing has to how we got here. At least they'll have a firm understanding of just how sexist light speed is.
    - thick 6y ago
      Not sad or confusing at all. It’s par for the course. WSB likes to use a line from The Dark Knight that Joker says - that it’s not about the money, it’s about sending a message. It’s very apt and I look forward to how far these things go. I’m fine being on a site that doesn’t share my views. I’ll sit and laugh as the system fucks over every last person that keep defending it against their (and everyone else’s) better interests. And then when they can’t find the downvote button anymore because it’s no longer allowed, I’ll laugh some more.
  - Rastonbury 6y ago
    Ah yes we should learn to self-censor to save the powers that be the trouble!
  - cycloptic 6y ago
    I'm confused, what is the lesson here? That quote seems to get thrown around so often that it can be applied to anytime that anyone gets criticized for anything. The moderator's statement appears to be asking for more help with moderation, not advocating for less moderation or advocating for more hateful behavior to be allowed.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      > That quote seems to get thrown around so often that it can be applied to anytime that anyone gets criticized for anything. That's the point. It serves to show the perils of judging people by what they say, particularly if single offence against some perceived norms becomes a standard for punishment. And there's another quote from that same period: "like Saturn, the Revolution devours its children" (Jacques Mallet du Pan).
      - Guthur 6y ago
        The point should be deeper than that, the character, methods and legacy of the Cardinal Richelieu are the important aspects. The man cement centralised power within France by through a multitude of authoritarian methods. And so in my opinion it's the motives behind such a statement that are important.
      - cycloptic 6y ago
        I have to say, that still doesn't mean much to me here. In a real court system, we judge people by their actions and behaviors, sometimes their speech can play into that. I assume that's what the author was referring to. (Apparently the origin of this quote is not clear, but it does seem to come from that same time period) This can't be compared to social media, the only way to judge anyone in the context of a social media platform is by what they say. That's all there is on these platforms, if you take that away, there's nothing left. You are judging someone every time you make a decision whether to like/follow/reply/retweet or not. If your view is that all that doesn't matter and the speech is meaningless, then it follows that any perceived punishments are also meaningless.
    - bsder 6y ago
  - bpcpdx 6y ago
    "Give me 280 characters typed by the hand of an honest man, I will find something in them to cancel him." Anon paraphrasing Cardinal Richelieu (Alledgelly)
    - chokeartist 6y ago
      "Give me Robinhood and a live stream of r/WallStreetBets and I will make Hedge Funds tremble in fear." Autist Trader, Circa 2021
  - dfxm12 6y ago
    The lesson in that quote is that it doesn't matter what you write, if someone with the right authority wants you hanged, or wants to shut down your discord, it'll happen regardless of due process. This is different from what the parent poster is implying. It's about the dangers of authoritarianism. No plants or justification are necessary.
- prawn 6y ago
  I don't think they're protecting you from speech, but protecting themselves from it. A murky reputation harms their ad revenue or corporate opportunities, I imagine.
Infinitesimus 6y ago
Reddit was clean but some channels in discord had ... questionable users. Most channels were heavily moderated and kept clean though.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
_ifvv 6y ago
> They definitely referred to themselves as autists/retards in a self-deprecating manner but that's hardly the same thing. I fail to see how 'autist' is any less of a slur than e.g. 'trap' or 'gay', when used in the right (wrong) context. It's not a racial slur, but it's quite certainly a slur.
- ALittleLight 6y ago
  I'm not sure what your point is. There are appropriate and inappropriate ways to use words. Making fun of the neuro-atypicals is inappropriate, joking with likeminded folks in a community built around such is likely appropriate. You've just that word you are complaining about, should you be banned?
  - slg 6y ago
    > joking with likeminded folks in a community built around such is likely appropriate. Would you say it is okay for white people to use the n word if there are no Black people around?
    - ALittleLight 6y ago
      I think it depends. Certainly it could be used in a way that conveys racist positions and it could be used in a way that doesn't. Is someone singing along to a rap song a racist? Kids being edgy? I am not saying though that I think use of the term is okay, only that I don't think it should be prohibited either by law or by the pressure of big companies punishing people who say what is forbidden for them to say. I'm perfectly happy with people who make the judgement that they may never say certain words. I'm not happy with people telling others what they can or cannot say.
    - djbebs 6y ago
      Whats wrong with using that word even if black people are around? If listening to a word causes you so much trouble, thats your problem as the listener, and its up to you to deal with it.
    - 6y ago
melomal 6y ago
Yup, I've been on WSB for some serious time now and sure they call each other autists/retards to no end but nothing racial. F##K cancel culture.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
sam_dal 6y ago
Discord has to worry more about it's financial sources than community. I suppose "power that be" applied little pressure to boot out the community.
BillinghamJ 6y ago
Unfortunately they are consistently homophobic though - particularly on the Discord :\
xg15 6y ago
> They definitely referred to themselves as autists/retards in a self-deprecating manner but that's hardly the same thing. A self-deprecating slur can still be a slur.
bombcar 6y ago
Options expiring this week are still referred to as FDs - even though the subreddit banned the first word (D is delight).
ceilingcorner 6y ago
Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.” – Michael Crichton (1942-2008) Every time you read an article saying “X community is filled with Y horrible thing,” remember this.

by ng12 6y ago

koheripbal 6y ago

This is one of the dangers of using "hate speech" as an nebulous term. You can then turn it around and use it as an excuse to ban whatever you want. I could easily read through any of the front page posts on Reddit, and find what I consider to be hate speech, and if I were in a position of power, I could just use that as a justification to ban the entire domain. Moreover, it easily allows adversaries the ability to plant hate speech in forums they dislike, and then pressure the authorities to ban it. At the end of the day, I am an adult, and I reject the notion that sites need to protect me from speech.

cambalache 6y ago
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." Cardinal Richelieu (Alledgelly) A lesson this generation will have to learn again.
- theinverseidea 6y ago
  Its terribly sad, and equally confusing has to how we got here. At least they'll have a firm understanding of just how sexist light speed is.
  - thick 6y ago
    Not sad or confusing at all. It’s par for the course. WSB likes to use a line from The Dark Knight that Joker says - that it’s not about the money, it’s about sending a message. It’s very apt and I look forward to how far these things go. I’m fine being on a site that doesn’t share my views. I’ll sit and laugh as the system fucks over every last person that keep defending it against their (and everyone else’s) better interests. And then when they can’t find the downvote button anymore because it’s no longer allowed, I’ll laugh some more.
- Rastonbury 6y ago
  Ah yes we should learn to self-censor to save the powers that be the trouble!
- cycloptic 6y ago
  I'm confused, what is the lesson here? That quote seems to get thrown around so often that it can be applied to anytime that anyone gets criticized for anything. The moderator's statement appears to be asking for more help with moderation, not advocating for less moderation or advocating for more hateful behavior to be allowed.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    > That quote seems to get thrown around so often that it can be applied to anytime that anyone gets criticized for anything. That's the point. It serves to show the perils of judging people by what they say, particularly if single offence against some perceived norms becomes a standard for punishment. And there's another quote from that same period: "like Saturn, the Revolution devours its children" (Jacques Mallet du Pan).
    - Guthur 6y ago
      The point should be deeper than that, the character, methods and legacy of the Cardinal Richelieu are the important aspects. The man cement centralised power within France by through a multitude of authoritarian methods. And so in my opinion it's the motives behind such a statement that are important.
    - cycloptic 6y ago
      I have to say, that still doesn't mean much to me here. In a real court system, we judge people by their actions and behaviors, sometimes their speech can play into that. I assume that's what the author was referring to. (Apparently the origin of this quote is not clear, but it does seem to come from that same time period) This can't be compared to social media, the only way to judge anyone in the context of a social media platform is by what they say. That's all there is on these platforms, if you take that away, there's nothing left. You are judging someone every time you make a decision whether to like/follow/reply/retweet or not. If your view is that all that doesn't matter and the speech is meaningless, then it follows that any perceived punishments are also meaningless.
  - bsder 6y ago
- bpcpdx 6y ago
  "Give me 280 characters typed by the hand of an honest man, I will find something in them to cancel him." Anon paraphrasing Cardinal Richelieu (Alledgelly)
  - chokeartist 6y ago
    "Give me Robinhood and a live stream of r/WallStreetBets and I will make Hedge Funds tremble in fear." Autist Trader, Circa 2021
- dfxm12 6y ago
  The lesson in that quote is that it doesn't matter what you write, if someone with the right authority wants you hanged, or wants to shut down your discord, it'll happen regardless of due process. This is different from what the parent poster is implying. It's about the dangers of authoritarianism. No plants or justification are necessary.
prawn 6y ago
I don't think they're protecting you from speech, but protecting themselves from it. A murky reputation harms their ad revenue or corporate opportunities, I imagine.

Infinitesimus 6y ago

Reddit was clean but some channels in discord had ... questionable users. Most channels were heavily moderated and kept clean though.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

_ifvv 6y ago

> They definitely referred to themselves as autists/retards in a self-deprecating manner but that's hardly the same thing. I fail to see how 'autist' is any less of a slur than e.g. 'trap' or 'gay', when used in the right (wrong) context. It's not a racial slur, but it's quite certainly a slur.

ALittleLight 6y ago
I'm not sure what your point is. There are appropriate and inappropriate ways to use words. Making fun of the neuro-atypicals is inappropriate, joking with likeminded folks in a community built around such is likely appropriate. You've just that word you are complaining about, should you be banned?
- slg 6y ago
  > joking with likeminded folks in a community built around such is likely appropriate. Would you say it is okay for white people to use the n word if there are no Black people around?
  - ALittleLight 6y ago
    I think it depends. Certainly it could be used in a way that conveys racist positions and it could be used in a way that doesn't. Is someone singing along to a rap song a racist? Kids being edgy? I am not saying though that I think use of the term is okay, only that I don't think it should be prohibited either by law or by the pressure of big companies punishing people who say what is forbidden for them to say. I'm perfectly happy with people who make the judgement that they may never say certain words. I'm not happy with people telling others what they can or cannot say.
  - djbebs 6y ago
    Whats wrong with using that word even if black people are around? If listening to a word causes you so much trouble, thats your problem as the listener, and its up to you to deal with it.
  - 6y ago

melomal 6y ago

Yup, I've been on WSB for some serious time now and sure they call each other autists/retards to no end but nothing racial. F##K cancel culture.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

sam_dal 6y ago

Discord has to worry more about it's financial sources than community. I suppose "power that be" applied little pressure to boot out the community.

BillinghamJ 6y ago

Unfortunately they are consistently homophobic though - particularly on the Discord :\

xg15 6y ago

> They definitely referred to themselves as autists/retards in a self-deprecating manner but that's hardly the same thing. A self-deprecating slur can still be a slur.

bombcar 6y ago

Options expiring this week are still referred to as FDs - even though the subreddit banned the first word (D is delight).

ceilingcorner 6y ago

Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.” – Michael Crichton (1942-2008) Every time you read an article saying “X community is filled with Y horrible thing,” remember this.