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I don't really know how to read your comment. All the wireless protocol that we use are actually "raw" radio whatever that means. You can use them to do P2P com

by brmgb 6y ago

I don't really know how to read your comment. All the wireless protocol that we use are actually "raw" radio whatever that means. You can use them to do P2P communication if you want to as demonstrated by this protocol. The way you physically transport data can be safely decoupled from how you will encode and how you want your protocol to work. It makes thinking about the different layers easier and allow them to evolve independantly. Nothing prevents you from building an IP network using ham radio as a transport. The OSI model wasn't developed as a purely theorical concept. It does solve a practical problem.

peter_d_sherman 6y ago
>"I don't really know how to read your comment. All the wireless protocol that we use are actually "raw" radio whatever that means." Sometimes the most profound of truths, the most elegant of truths, are so simple, so as to be overlooked and/or written off by people. In this case, you see, if "everything is turtles" all the way up, then at the base layer, the turtle all the way at the bottom, the turtle who rests on no other turtle, well that turtle is "radio". Let's change the topic and talk about cars for a second. You have drivers, people who can drive a car, that is, people like you and me. But then you have a subsection of these people, who are mechanics, who can fix most typical problems that a car might have, but there are limits to their capabilities; they couldn't make a car more aerodynamic, or reengineer a gas car to be an electric one, etc. Then you have, as a subsection of Mechanics, Car Design Engineers (all Car Designers are in effect Mechanics also, because their knowledge is a superset of the mechanic's knowledge). The Car Design Engineer can do "miraculous" things that an ordinary Mechanic cannot -- he or she could make a gas car electric, an electric one gas, could design for higher MPG, could swap out systems, etc., etc. The Mechanic works at a lower level of abstraction than the car driver does, and so, can do many things that an ordinary car driver cannot, but the Car Design Engineer works at a still lower level of abstraction than the Mechanic -- and thus he or she can do "miraculous" things that the Mechanic cannot... "It's all raw radio" -- is the simple, elegant, most profound truth at the bottom of the stack of turtles (compare to the concept of common denominators in Mathematics), it's the lowest-level abstraction, it's the abstraction level that, should we work from it upwards (rather than pre-built protocols, drivers and stacks) downwards, we'd find that we can do things that we otherwise couldn't, if we were forced to work within the constraints of all of those pre-determined systems. Finally, the Internet itself -- the Internet itself -- IS A SERIES OF ABSTRACTIONS -- a series of "Turtles on top of other turtles". The Internet itself... Meditate on that one for a second... I did, and the implications of that meditation were profound! Why shouldn't someone commit to learning about all of those levels of abstraction, and gaining the corresponding power of amazing engineering (aka, "abstraction working") abilities -- should that knowledge be gained?

by brmgb 6y ago

peter_d_sherman 6y ago

>"I don't really know how to read your comment. All the wireless protocol that we use are actually "raw" radio whatever that means." Sometimes the most profound of truths, the most elegant of truths, are so simple, so as to be overlooked and/or written off by people. In this case, you see, if "everything is turtles" all the way up, then at the base layer, the turtle all the way at the bottom, the turtle who rests on no other turtle, well that turtle is "radio". Let's change the topic and talk about cars for a second. You have drivers, people who can drive a car, that is, people like you and me. But then you have a subsection of these people, who are mechanics, who can fix most typical problems that a car might have, but there are limits to their capabilities; they couldn't make a car more aerodynamic, or reengineer a gas car to be an electric one, etc. Then you have, as a subsection of Mechanics, Car Design Engineers (all Car Designers are in effect Mechanics also, because their knowledge is a superset of the mechanic's knowledge). The Car Design Engineer can do "miraculous" things that an ordinary Mechanic cannot -- he or she could make a gas car electric, an electric one gas, could design for higher MPG, could swap out systems, etc., etc. The Mechanic works at a lower level of abstraction than the car driver does, and so, can do many things that an ordinary car driver cannot, but the Car Design Engineer works at a still lower level of abstraction than the Mechanic -- and thus he or she can do "miraculous" things that the Mechanic cannot... "It's all raw radio" -- is the simple, elegant, most profound truth at the bottom of the stack of turtles (compare to the concept of common denominators in Mathematics), it's the lowest-level abstraction, it's the abstraction level that, should we work from it upwards (rather than pre-built protocols, drivers and stacks) downwards, we'd find that we can do things that we otherwise couldn't, if we were forced to work within the constraints of all of those pre-determined systems. Finally, the Internet itself -- the Internet itself -- IS A SERIES OF ABSTRACTIONS -- a series of "Turtles on top of other turtles". The Internet itself... Meditate on that one for a second... I did, and the implications of that meditation were profound! Why shouldn't someone commit to learning about all of those levels of abstraction, and gaining the corresponding power of amazing engineering (aka, "abstraction working") abilities -- should that knowledge be gained?