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They've officially ticked off rich and well-connected people, so regulators are coming to shake the tree branch (I have no idea whether what they're doing is il

by rory 6y ago

They've officially ticked off rich and well-connected people, so regulators are coming to shake the tree branch (I have no idea whether what they're doing is illegal or not) and the platforms want to distance themselves from that ASAP.

epistasis 6y ago
I don't think anybody has ever suffered negative regulatory action for doing a short squeeze. Even Martin Shkreli didn't get in trouble for his.
- koolba 6y ago
  Acting alone it’s not inherently illegal. Real question is whether pooling your strength (ie assets) with others to force a squeeze is illegal collusion and market manipulation.
  - epistasis 6y ago
    In particular, it's hard to see a short squeeze as market manipulation, which is why nobody has been penalized for it. What is a hedge fund except more explicit coordination of many people's money on a much greater scale? The classic example of Porsche's squeeze on VW stock was Porsche's management coordinating many people's pooled assets.
- jfim 6y ago
  It has happened in the past: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/squeeze-on-goldman-put-falcone-in-penalty-box-2013-08-21 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/squeeze-on-goldman-put-fal... and https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2012-2012-122htm https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2012-2012-122htm
  - epistasis 6y ago
    It looks like Falcone may have been ok both sides of the squeeze, or at least treating its customers differently in order to execute it?
tidepod12 6y ago
Incredibly naive to think that WSB itself isn't filled with rich and well-connected people. In its early days, WSB was almost entirely a bunch of rich wall street traders with extra tens/hundreds of thousands to spare on crazy bets. Nowadays, it's one of the largest subreddits on one of the largest websites in the world. WSB isn't some niche gathering of "average joes" - all of the major wall street firms monitor it, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that many of them downright manipulate it via astroturfing.
- the_only_law 6y ago
  I’m convinced that this is just a “win the battle, lose the war” moment. I can imagine well funded financial institutions doing whatever they can to make sure this doesn’t happen again and if they can, punishing those who took part.
  - guscost 6y ago
    Same exact thing that they are trying to do to Trump. The war between populists and establishment is just getting started. This is probably not a popular (ha) opinion on HN right now, but just wait and see!
    - IggleSniggle 6y ago
      I agree with you regarding the war between populists and establishment, but I don’t think Trump fits into that as more than a cataclyst. The Obama story was the same: Hope and Change Populism. Trump is business establishment through and through and has managed to wake a populist movement for his own enrichment. He (and his sycophantic cronies) were (and continue to be) very much part of the “I got mine” greed establishment. Instead of answering to the Population, it seems that Trump and his crew care only for self-enrichment. How he managed to capture the imagination of a Populist movement is indication of the total lack of alternatives.
      - guscost 6y ago
        We apparently live in different realities. “If big business is on your side, everyone on TV is on your side, Hollywood is on your side, every university faculty is on your side, and almost every union is on your side, then you are not The Resistance.” -Apocryphal
BoorishBears 6y ago
I made another comment, people are really letting logic fail them in order to push a narrative. The server was vile. Moderation used racial slurs casually. Suddenly thousands of new people are flooding into the server from WSB on Reddit where the standard is obviously higher than that. What do you think happens to report numbers? They skyrocket with user count! Suddenly all eyes are on a truly vile corner of Discord of course they're going to ban them!
- rory 6y ago
  Not sure what the "narrative" you're projecting on me is? The administration literally announced they are monitoring the online stock pumping situation. That's a pretty fair motivation for Discord to drop a stock pumping server.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    How does that reconcile with literally hundreds of other servers involving stocks that are still up? Including literally the WSB discord that used to be linked in the subreddit! > To be clear, we did not ban this server due to financial fraud related to GameStop or other stocks. Discord welcomes a broad variety of personal finance discussions, from investment clubs and day traders to college students and professional financial advisors. We are monitoring this situation and in the event there are allegations of illegal activities, we will cooperate with authorities as appropriate. - https://discord.me/server/join/protected/c3fe5f4361 https://discord.me/server/join/protected/c3fe5f4361 That server was vile. And not because of WSB tongue-in-cheek "retard" "gay-bear" stuff, just actual hateful usage of racial slurs actual, homophobia not just based on using certain words, and more Your narrative that this is a response to "stock pumping" is completely off base. - Edit reply: There's proof for my side... Discord said they were banned from getting tons of reports. There's no proof for a narrative where Discord self-censors over an intentionally vague tweet about social media and stocks. "We deleted the server to not implicate ourselves in a tool of securities fraud" would have been a pretty damn good reason by itself... no need to lie about that. - Edit reply: If enough upset people crying over their banned cesspool downvote you, you can't reply to comments anymore :) I guess in the face of your lack of even "proof", I'm brazenly suggesting that having an admin saying ni*er hundreds of times will get your server banned.
cesarb 6y ago
I have an alternative theory: the events of three weeks ago in the USA made these platforms much more trigger-happy than usual. Where before they might have let it slide, nowadays (and for a while) they will want to take no risks.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  However, with each such decision that happened recently (and I swear it's something of a third high-profile ban after the capitol thing), they're angering ever larger groups of people all across the political spectrum. I feel this will bite them hard. This is going to be interesting to watch.
- rory 6y ago
  I don't think that's necessarily alternative. Probably, both your theory and mine are parts of the explanation.
- jjordan 6y ago
  As of now there have been few repercussions for turning the knob up on censorship. Power begets power, and we'll see whether or not it burns them in the end.

by rory 6y ago

epistasis 6y ago

I don't think anybody has ever suffered negative regulatory action for doing a short squeeze. Even Martin Shkreli didn't get in trouble for his.

koolba 6y ago
Acting alone it’s not inherently illegal. Real question is whether pooling your strength (ie assets) with others to force a squeeze is illegal collusion and market manipulation.
- epistasis 6y ago
  In particular, it's hard to see a short squeeze as market manipulation, which is why nobody has been penalized for it. What is a hedge fund except more explicit coordination of many people's money on a much greater scale? The classic example of Porsche's squeeze on VW stock was Porsche's management coordinating many people's pooled assets.
jfim 6y ago
It has happened in the past: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/squeeze-on-goldman-put-falcone-in-penalty-box-2013-08-21 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/squeeze-on-goldman-put-fal... and https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2012-2012-122htm https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2012-2012-122htm
- epistasis 6y ago
  It looks like Falcone may have been ok both sides of the squeeze, or at least treating its customers differently in order to execute it?

tidepod12 6y ago

Incredibly naive to think that WSB itself isn't filled with rich and well-connected people. In its early days, WSB was almost entirely a bunch of rich wall street traders with extra tens/hundreds of thousands to spare on crazy bets. Nowadays, it's one of the largest subreddits on one of the largest websites in the world. WSB isn't some niche gathering of "average joes" - all of the major wall street firms monitor it, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that many of them downright manipulate it via astroturfing.

the_only_law 6y ago
I’m convinced that this is just a “win the battle, lose the war” moment. I can imagine well funded financial institutions doing whatever they can to make sure this doesn’t happen again and if they can, punishing those who took part.
- guscost 6y ago
  Same exact thing that they are trying to do to Trump. The war between populists and establishment is just getting started. This is probably not a popular (ha) opinion on HN right now, but just wait and see!
  - IggleSniggle 6y ago
    I agree with you regarding the war between populists and establishment, but I don’t think Trump fits into that as more than a cataclyst. The Obama story was the same: Hope and Change Populism. Trump is business establishment through and through and has managed to wake a populist movement for his own enrichment. He (and his sycophantic cronies) were (and continue to be) very much part of the “I got mine” greed establishment. Instead of answering to the Population, it seems that Trump and his crew care only for self-enrichment. How he managed to capture the imagination of a Populist movement is indication of the total lack of alternatives.
    - guscost 6y ago
      We apparently live in different realities. “If big business is on your side, everyone on TV is on your side, Hollywood is on your side, every university faculty is on your side, and almost every union is on your side, then you are not The Resistance.” -Apocryphal

BoorishBears 6y ago

I made another comment, people are really letting logic fail them in order to push a narrative. The server was vile. Moderation used racial slurs casually. Suddenly thousands of new people are flooding into the server from WSB on Reddit where the standard is obviously higher than that. What do you think happens to report numbers? They skyrocket with user count! Suddenly all eyes are on a truly vile corner of Discord of course they're going to ban them!

rory 6y ago
Not sure what the "narrative" you're projecting on me is? The administration literally announced they are monitoring the online stock pumping situation. That's a pretty fair motivation for Discord to drop a stock pumping server.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  How does that reconcile with literally hundreds of other servers involving stocks that are still up? Including literally the WSB discord that used to be linked in the subreddit! > To be clear, we did not ban this server due to financial fraud related to GameStop or other stocks. Discord welcomes a broad variety of personal finance discussions, from investment clubs and day traders to college students and professional financial advisors. We are monitoring this situation and in the event there are allegations of illegal activities, we will cooperate with authorities as appropriate. - https://discord.me/server/join/protected/c3fe5f4361 https://discord.me/server/join/protected/c3fe5f4361 That server was vile. And not because of WSB tongue-in-cheek "retard" "gay-bear" stuff, just actual hateful usage of racial slurs actual, homophobia not just based on using certain words, and more Your narrative that this is a response to "stock pumping" is completely off base. - Edit reply: There's proof for my side... Discord said they were banned from getting tons of reports. There's no proof for a narrative where Discord self-censors over an intentionally vague tweet about social media and stocks. "We deleted the server to not implicate ourselves in a tool of securities fraud" would have been a pretty damn good reason by itself... no need to lie about that. - Edit reply: If enough upset people crying over their banned cesspool downvote you, you can't reply to comments anymore :) I guess in the face of your lack of even "proof", I'm brazenly suggesting that having an admin saying ni*er hundreds of times will get your server banned.

cesarb 6y ago

I have an alternative theory: the events of three weeks ago in the USA made these platforms much more trigger-happy than usual. Where before they might have let it slide, nowadays (and for a while) they will want to take no risks.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
However, with each such decision that happened recently (and I swear it's something of a third high-profile ban after the capitol thing), they're angering ever larger groups of people all across the political spectrum. I feel this will bite them hard. This is going to be interesting to watch.
rory 6y ago
I don't think that's necessarily alternative. Probably, both your theory and mine are parts of the explanation.
jjordan 6y ago
As of now there have been few repercussions for turning the knob up on censorship. Power begets power, and we'll see whether or not it burns them in the end.