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Anecdotally - it seems like a non-trivial percentage of my mom's trips to the vet end in euthanasia. I suspect there is an order of magnitude in the difference

Anecdotally - it seems like a non-trivial percentage of my mom's trips to the vet end in euthanasia. I suspect there is an order of magnitude in the difference in level of care that goes into the average person vs dog. I mean, for one, it is very common to hear things like - "well, you have to remember, their lifespan is short. They only have a year or so left to live." This just isn't a discussion that is had with people.

alisonkisk 6y ago
> They only have a year or so left to live." This just isn't a discussion that is had with people. Except doctors. Doctors refuse life extending treatments at a much higher rate than general population of patients.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  I'm with them. I have no desire to transfer my assets to an already-wealthy bunch of doctors and healthcare conglomerates in exchange for dragging out the inevitable.
  - mike_d 6y ago
    You are currently thinking with the rational part of your brain. Find a 4-5 story parking garage and stand up on the edge. That part of your brain that kicks in and tells you to get back down to safety will also tell you to pour every cent you have in to buying a few more weeks.
    - throwawayboise 6y ago
      I'm pretty sure you're wrong, but time will tell I guess. I've already watched both my parents die of the inevitable effects of getting old, and I have pretty firm ideas about what parts of that process I want to avoid for myself.
    - majormajor 6y ago
      > Find a 4-5 story parking garage and stand up on the edge. That part of your brain that kicks in and tells you to get back down to safety will also tell you to pour every cent you have in to buying a few more weeks. This can change when there is no "back to normal" available. When your quality of life is shot and you know that tomorrow won't be better than today. In a suicidal person who jumps off that building we consider this a tragedy because there's usually no physical reason that those feelings couldn't have passed, why their life couldn't have been normal again. But in someone with a terminal condition and a body that's just done... and especially if they're well informed about the realities of their medical condition... yes, there can be things you care about more than throwing every cent you have into extending the pain.
      - necovek 6y ago
        A person who's in such a state usually does not have the physical ability to do this. But I think there's truth to both points, and every single case will be different. I believe the only blocker to allowing euthanasia in the developed world is a potential for abuse.
Shebanator 6y ago
I think you need to stop taking your mom to the vet
nicoburns 6y ago
That is the sort of discussion that happens around old or terminally ill people. Some people prolong things as long as they possibly can, but in my observations this generally only seems to cause misery to everyone involved.
tzs 6y ago
> Anecdotally - it seems like a non-trivial percentage of my mom's trips to the vet end in euthanasia. Part of this could be that pets are limited in their ability to communicate details of their feelings to humans, making it harder for humans to tell the difference between a pet that is acting off because of something that they will recover from without a trip to the vet and one that is acting that way because of something that is serious and is going to go downhill fast if you don't take them to a vet soon. This leads to vets first going to the vet for a given illness later into that illness than a human with a similar illness would have went to the doctor, hence a greater chance of it being too late.
- poulsbohemian 6y ago
  I’m not a religious or spiritual person, but I assure you my cat told me when he wanted to fight, and when he was ready to go. I’ve never seen a cat so happy as when he saw me again after that long week in the hospital, and likewise when he was on the floor of the bedroom in pain, his face and his little weak voice told me he was ready to go the same as each person I’ve been with in their last moments.
JacobDotVI 6y ago
It isn’t but it should be. Being Mortal is a phenomenal book about end of life care that I would recommend to anyone and everyone old or young.
poulsbohemian 6y ago
Maybe that’s part of the problem? I mean - my grandmother lived to be 96, was “healthy” nearly to the end, but realistically was ready to go a good decade before that. With my cat (and this would likely be the case with any of my cats...) we took a reasoned look at the medical options and the quality of life choices. It wasn’t exactly cheap, but we basically bought him a year of life. If it had been a human family member, we would have gone through exactly the same decision, IE: do you want to keep fighting and do you want to go through this procedure or not?
redis_mlc 6y ago
> This just isn't a discussion that is had with people. As you get older, that discussion comes up more frequently. If you're 80 or 90 and have cancer, there's no "getting better." When you read interviews with US MDs, they generally say, "Just DNR me." As a society, the US needs to start addressing these issues.

alisonkisk 6y ago

> They only have a year or so left to live." This just isn't a discussion that is had with people. Except doctors. Doctors refuse life extending treatments at a much higher rate than general population of patients.

throwawayboise 6y ago
I'm with them. I have no desire to transfer my assets to an already-wealthy bunch of doctors and healthcare conglomerates in exchange for dragging out the inevitable.
- mike_d 6y ago
  You are currently thinking with the rational part of your brain. Find a 4-5 story parking garage and stand up on the edge. That part of your brain that kicks in and tells you to get back down to safety will also tell you to pour every cent you have in to buying a few more weeks.
  - throwawayboise 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure you're wrong, but time will tell I guess. I've already watched both my parents die of the inevitable effects of getting old, and I have pretty firm ideas about what parts of that process I want to avoid for myself.
  - majormajor 6y ago
    > Find a 4-5 story parking garage and stand up on the edge. That part of your brain that kicks in and tells you to get back down to safety will also tell you to pour every cent you have in to buying a few more weeks. This can change when there is no "back to normal" available. When your quality of life is shot and you know that tomorrow won't be better than today. In a suicidal person who jumps off that building we consider this a tragedy because there's usually no physical reason that those feelings couldn't have passed, why their life couldn't have been normal again. But in someone with a terminal condition and a body that's just done... and especially if they're well informed about the realities of their medical condition... yes, there can be things you care about more than throwing every cent you have into extending the pain.
    - necovek 6y ago
      A person who's in such a state usually does not have the physical ability to do this. But I think there's truth to both points, and every single case will be different. I believe the only blocker to allowing euthanasia in the developed world is a potential for abuse.

Shebanator 6y ago

I think you need to stop taking your mom to the vet

nicoburns 6y ago

That is the sort of discussion that happens around old or terminally ill people. Some people prolong things as long as they possibly can, but in my observations this generally only seems to cause misery to everyone involved.

tzs 6y ago

> Anecdotally - it seems like a non-trivial percentage of my mom's trips to the vet end in euthanasia. Part of this could be that pets are limited in their ability to communicate details of their feelings to humans, making it harder for humans to tell the difference between a pet that is acting off because of something that they will recover from without a trip to the vet and one that is acting that way because of something that is serious and is going to go downhill fast if you don't take them to a vet soon. This leads to vets first going to the vet for a given illness later into that illness than a human with a similar illness would have went to the doctor, hence a greater chance of it being too late.

poulsbohemian 6y ago
I’m not a religious or spiritual person, but I assure you my cat told me when he wanted to fight, and when he was ready to go. I’ve never seen a cat so happy as when he saw me again after that long week in the hospital, and likewise when he was on the floor of the bedroom in pain, his face and his little weak voice told me he was ready to go the same as each person I’ve been with in their last moments.

JacobDotVI 6y ago

It isn’t but it should be. Being Mortal is a phenomenal book about end of life care that I would recommend to anyone and everyone old or young.

poulsbohemian 6y ago

Maybe that’s part of the problem? I mean - my grandmother lived to be 96, was “healthy” nearly to the end, but realistically was ready to go a good decade before that. With my cat (and this would likely be the case with any of my cats...) we took a reasoned look at the medical options and the quality of life choices. It wasn’t exactly cheap, but we basically bought him a year of life. If it had been a human family member, we would have gone through exactly the same decision, IE: do you want to keep fighting and do you want to go through this procedure or not?

redis_mlc 6y ago

> This just isn't a discussion that is had with people. As you get older, that discussion comes up more frequently. If you're 80 or 90 and have cancer, there's no "getting better." When you read interviews with US MDs, they generally say, "Just DNR me." As a society, the US needs to start addressing these issues.