6 ms·

One of the great things about accessibility is that it often doesn't just benefit people with disabilities. My wife and I have watched a lot of TV in the past

One of the great things about accessibility is that it often doesn't just benefit people with disabilities. My wife and I have watched a lot of TV in the past year with the volume down and captioning on, while we enjoy some down time while our baby is sleeping. A ramped entrance to a building allows wheelchair-bound folks access, but it also helps able-bodied people using delivery dollies. Making simple, lightweight web pages makes them accessible to those with older browsers and devices, but it also saves power consumption, time, and frustration for folks on M1 MacBook Pros.

dmhmr 6y ago
I might be misinterpreting your last sentence regarding M1 MacBook Pros. Are you saying they are underpowered for surfing the internet?
- lastofthemojito 6y ago
  The M1 MacBook Pro is at the other end of the spectrum from the outdated/underpowered device that requires a lightweight web page. But the user of such a fast machine still benefits from lightweight web pages (faster loading times, less CPU usage, etc).
- jaywalk 6y ago
  What he's saying is that this stuff has benefits even for people using modern, powerful machines like the M1 MacBook Pro.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
ogre_codes 6y ago
Yes, absolutely. I use closed caption when possible because often I don't quite hear things right and can't make out words. I could turn up the TV, but this means I can enjoy it at the same volume as everyone.
- zzo38computer 6y ago
  I also use captions (even when the TV isn't muted). If someone else in the room is speaking so something on the TV is missed, it will be shown on the captions. Sometimes there might be some word or name I don't know and will want to look it up, and the caption will have the spelling (if the caption writer has spelled it correctly, which sometimes they don't, unfortunately). It could also be used for transcripts and caption scrollback, if those features were implemented, although unfortunately it isn't.
bonestamp2 6y ago
> watched a lot of TV in the past year with the volume down and captioning onf I like how Apple TV now lets you pair two bluetooth headsets. My wife and I can watch shows without waking the baby. Combine that with the visual sound indicator on the baby monitor, and headphones with transparency mode, we can see when the baby is making noise and hear other environmental noises too. It's a nice combination of accessibility features that make a clever setup for hearing the TV. I can't wait until Apple TV supports spatial audio... then we'll have "surround sound" in our headphones too!
acdha 6y ago
> One of the great things about accessibility is that it often doesn't just benefit people with disabilities. I really love how Microsoft's design team has pushed this with their “Inclusive Design” concept[1] and highlighting how any sort of disability can be situational (holding a baby), temporary (broken arm), or permanent (missing arm) but we often only think of those in the last context despite there being orders of magnitude more people in the first two categories. Parenting is really good for showing this out since you get the need to be quiet, be able to do something using only one hand (or none), navigate sidewalks with a stroller, trying to do anything while sleep deprived, etc. There's a great chart on page 42 (“Persona Spectrum”) of this PDF which I try to get every team I work on to go through which really gets people to think about what this means: https://download.microsoft.com/download/b/0/d/b0d4bf87-09ce-4417-8f28-d60703d672ed/inclusive_toolkit_manual_final.pdf https://download.microsoft.com/download/b/0/d/b0d4bf87-09ce-... 1. https://www.microsoft.com/design/inclusive/ https://www.microsoft.com/design/inclusive/
- pvorb 6y ago
  I fully agree with all of your points. I just wanted to point out the irony that the manual and other documentation for this "inclusive design" toolkit come as PDFs – the worst choice you can make if you strive for accessibility.
  - labawi 6y ago
    I may be missing something obvious, but why is pdf such a bad choice? As long as it has actual text and is reasonably typeset (selecting text in this pdf seems to work properly), I don't see what's wrong. I'd take it any day over webpages with random floating content that you have to click through and use a modern browser with javascript without blockers/filters for the content to even render, in small text on 20% of the page, with low contrast and somehow broken zoom.
    - lucasmullens 6y ago
      I would assume PDFs don't typically work well with screen readers, which is what a large part of web accessibility is designed for.
scooble 6y ago
To add to this, a perspective I've heard working in the disability sphere is 'everybody is disabled eventually' - be that through injury, illness, or even just old age. This really challenges the view that thinking about disabled users is catering to the needs of a small group of the population. Whereas in fact it is bringing benefits to the majority of the population (at some point in their lives).
- AtlasBarfed 6y ago
  The culture of distraction distracts everyone from realizing they'll die. Disability is just the fine print. I remember walking around in a city after a parent died, and the world seemed like an illusion.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    It's weird, sometimes I do something and I realize that if things had been slightly different it might have killed me. Then I wonder if in a parallel universe I'm already dead. Then I realize that if there are parallel universes there are probable countless times where I'm already dead.
- blackbrokkoli 6y ago
  Does not even have to be that grim/profound. Ever used your phone in the blazing sun, or rain? Had a partly shattered screen or tried to do something on the stone-age library computer? Searched for something with really slow or shaky connection? Tried to explain where to click via phone? Suddenly all those accessibility features and "fail gracefully" come in really handy.
- myfonj 6y ago
  It's often put as "temporarily abled" or "able-bodied". "We're all just temporarily abled." is quite famous quote, as far as I traced attributed to Cindy Li.
eins1234 6y ago
Another great example of this is effective keyboard navigation is both an accessibility feature and something you can sell as a feature for power users who like to get things done as quickly and effortlessly as possible.
- m463 6y ago
  Like the apple face tracking mouse pointer, where you raise your eyebrows to click. https://youtu.be/wAVij3tTAxE https://youtu.be/wAVij3tTAxE
thewakalix 6y ago
This is commonly termed the "curb cut effect".
analog31 6y ago
Indeed, I'm a double bassist, and accessible buildings are a huge blessing, especially when loading out at 2 AM after playing for 4 hours straight. Not to mention, they've probably saved me thousands of dollars in repairs.
ehnto 6y ago
I use a tool called Vimium so I don't need my mouse to navigate websites, and it really quickly highlights websites that have accessibility problems. Even before this though, my preference was websites that use standard elements, as so frequently people can't write robust code and boutique buttons, drop downs or other widgets break.
hsitz 6y ago
> . . .also saves power consumption, time, and frustration for folks on M1 MacBook Pros. Did you mean to say ". . . for folks /not/ on M1 Macbook Pros"?
m463 6y ago
The troublesome grey area is the part where people do it for control. There is also sort of "exclusive design" that is practiced. You know - where you can't get comfortable on a park bench because you might sleep on it, or a ramp or stairs are built to exclude skateboards. Same thing happens with websites, to "control" adblockers or "reader mode" and other nonsense.

dmhmr 6y ago

I might be misinterpreting your last sentence regarding M1 MacBook Pros. Are you saying they are underpowered for surfing the internet?

lastofthemojito 6y ago
The M1 MacBook Pro is at the other end of the spectrum from the outdated/underpowered device that requires a lightweight web page. But the user of such a fast machine still benefits from lightweight web pages (faster loading times, less CPU usage, etc).
jaywalk 6y ago
What he's saying is that this stuff has benefits even for people using modern, powerful machines like the M1 MacBook Pro.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

ogre_codes 6y ago

Yes, absolutely. I use closed caption when possible because often I don't quite hear things right and can't make out words. I could turn up the TV, but this means I can enjoy it at the same volume as everyone.

zzo38computer 6y ago
I also use captions (even when the TV isn't muted). If someone else in the room is speaking so something on the TV is missed, it will be shown on the captions. Sometimes there might be some word or name I don't know and will want to look it up, and the caption will have the spelling (if the caption writer has spelled it correctly, which sometimes they don't, unfortunately). It could also be used for transcripts and caption scrollback, if those features were implemented, although unfortunately it isn't.

bonestamp2 6y ago

> watched a lot of TV in the past year with the volume down and captioning onf I like how Apple TV now lets you pair two bluetooth headsets. My wife and I can watch shows without waking the baby. Combine that with the visual sound indicator on the baby monitor, and headphones with transparency mode, we can see when the baby is making noise and hear other environmental noises too. It's a nice combination of accessibility features that make a clever setup for hearing the TV. I can't wait until Apple TV supports spatial audio... then we'll have "surround sound" in our headphones too!

acdha 6y ago

> One of the great things about accessibility is that it often doesn't just benefit people with disabilities. I really love how Microsoft's design team has pushed this with their “Inclusive Design” concept[1] and highlighting how any sort of disability can be situational (holding a baby), temporary (broken arm), or permanent (missing arm) but we often only think of those in the last context despite there being orders of magnitude more people in the first two categories. Parenting is really good for showing this out since you get the need to be quiet, be able to do something using only one hand (or none), navigate sidewalks with a stroller, trying to do anything while sleep deprived, etc. There's a great chart on page 42 (“Persona Spectrum”) of this PDF which I try to get every team I work on to go through which really gets people to think about what this means: https://download.microsoft.com/download/b/0/d/b0d4bf87-09ce-4417-8f28-d60703d672ed/inclusive_toolkit_manual_final.pdf https://download.microsoft.com/download/b/0/d/b0d4bf87-09ce-... 1. https://www.microsoft.com/design/inclusive/ https://www.microsoft.com/design/inclusive/

pvorb 6y ago
I fully agree with all of your points. I just wanted to point out the irony that the manual and other documentation for this "inclusive design" toolkit come as PDFs – the worst choice you can make if you strive for accessibility.
- labawi 6y ago
  I may be missing something obvious, but why is pdf such a bad choice? As long as it has actual text and is reasonably typeset (selecting text in this pdf seems to work properly), I don't see what's wrong. I'd take it any day over webpages with random floating content that you have to click through and use a modern browser with javascript without blockers/filters for the content to even render, in small text on 20% of the page, with low contrast and somehow broken zoom.
  - lucasmullens 6y ago
    I would assume PDFs don't typically work well with screen readers, which is what a large part of web accessibility is designed for.

scooble 6y ago

To add to this, a perspective I've heard working in the disability sphere is 'everybody is disabled eventually' - be that through injury, illness, or even just old age. This really challenges the view that thinking about disabled users is catering to the needs of a small group of the population. Whereas in fact it is bringing benefits to the majority of the population (at some point in their lives).

AtlasBarfed 6y ago
The culture of distraction distracts everyone from realizing they'll die. Disability is just the fine print. I remember walking around in a city after a parent died, and the world seemed like an illusion.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  It's weird, sometimes I do something and I realize that if things had been slightly different it might have killed me. Then I wonder if in a parallel universe I'm already dead. Then I realize that if there are parallel universes there are probable countless times where I'm already dead.
blackbrokkoli 6y ago
Does not even have to be that grim/profound. Ever used your phone in the blazing sun, or rain? Had a partly shattered screen or tried to do something on the stone-age library computer? Searched for something with really slow or shaky connection? Tried to explain where to click via phone? Suddenly all those accessibility features and "fail gracefully" come in really handy.
myfonj 6y ago
It's often put as "temporarily abled" or "able-bodied". "We're all just temporarily abled." is quite famous quote, as far as I traced attributed to Cindy Li.

eins1234 6y ago

Another great example of this is effective keyboard navigation is both an accessibility feature and something you can sell as a feature for power users who like to get things done as quickly and effortlessly as possible.

m463 6y ago
Like the apple face tracking mouse pointer, where you raise your eyebrows to click. https://youtu.be/wAVij3tTAxE https://youtu.be/wAVij3tTAxE

thewakalix 6y ago

This is commonly termed the "curb cut effect".

analog31 6y ago

Indeed, I'm a double bassist, and accessible buildings are a huge blessing, especially when loading out at 2 AM after playing for 4 hours straight. Not to mention, they've probably saved me thousands of dollars in repairs.

ehnto 6y ago

I use a tool called Vimium so I don't need my mouse to navigate websites, and it really quickly highlights websites that have accessibility problems. Even before this though, my preference was websites that use standard elements, as so frequently people can't write robust code and boutique buttons, drop downs or other widgets break.

hsitz 6y ago

> . . .also saves power consumption, time, and frustration for folks on M1 MacBook Pros. Did you mean to say ". . . for folks /not/ on M1 Macbook Pros"?

m463 6y ago

The troublesome grey area is the part where people do it for control. There is also sort of "exclusive design" that is practiced. You know - where you can't get comfortable on a park bench because you might sleep on it, or a ramp or stairs are built to exclude skateboards. Same thing happens with websites, to "control" adblockers or "reader mode" and other nonsense.