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If you find a really good tutorial by programmers who are both excellent teachers and experienced in that particular field, it beats JIT learning on a personal

If you find a really good tutorial by programmers who are both excellent teachers and experienced in that particular field, it beats JIT learning on a personal project in one important respect. You get exposure to the One True Way of doing things. What do I mean? Years ago, I learned to program iOS from the Big Nerd Ranch book. The most important thing I got out of that was learning enough about the Cocoa-Touch framework that I didn't try to fight the framework. You don't get that from JIT learning. How could you? That said, at the end of the book the authors urged the reader to go and write programs — that that was the only way to learn, after mastering the fundamentals. A beginner should place his or trust in an expert. The reason is that the big mistake beginners make, not knowing the fundamentals, is convincing themselves way too early that they have now grasped the fundamentals. I don't think the author and I are at odds. I agree a person can get too comfortable with MOOCs, YouTube courses, etc. But at the start, there is no substitute. And the start lasts longer than you may think.

julianlam 6y ago
> But at the start, there is no substitute. And the start lasts longer than you may think. Don't worry, he explicitly says this at the top. > Don’t get me wrong, I love MOOCs. They’re great for trying to learn a new programming language (e.g., Python, Scala) or framework (e.g., Spark, TensorFlow) or subject (e.g., statistics, machine learning). The structured learning environment, excellent teaching, and exercises (and solutions) guide us through the best way to learn new concepts. > >But most of the time, we don’t really need it. If we already know machine learning, taking that shiny new MOOC won’t help with applying it more effectively.
VBprogrammer 6y ago
As with so many things in life the best way probably doesn't live at either extreme. Often times I'll read about a subject and not fully understand it (and probably not even take the extra time to fully understand it) but when the problem comes up organically a light bulb goes off and I at least know what I'm googling for at that point.
krmmalik 6y ago
Continuing on with this train of thought, I agree with you. I'm not a programmer but I once had to learn how to use networking software for real world implementations, things like mailservers, firewalls etc etc. I did a fair bit of JIT but finally got hold of some courses for each piece of software. The bump in my knowledge and understanding was raised by a few orders of magnitude that almost 15 years later has still stuck with me. It's about funding the right expert as you say. The right person is invaluable.
ziml77 6y ago
This is the main reason that I still like proper books over quick tutorials. It's easy to end up fighting platforms and frameworks to make it do what you want. If you know the patterns and available features, it's less likely that you'll face the same levels of friction.
abcdabcd987 6y ago
> If you find a really good tutorial by programmers who are both excellent teachers and experienced in that particular field, it beats JIT learning on a personal project in one important respect. You get exposure to the One True Way of doing things. That's exactly my feeling when I was watching Jon Gjengset's Rust tutorials. I like his real reactions to unexpected problems. Really learned a lot from this kind of lengthy but realistic videos. https://www.youtube.com/c/JonGjengset/featured https://www.youtube.com/c/JonGjengset/featured
serjester 6y ago
The counterpoint is if you dive right into a project and make a bunch mistakes it'll stick a lot more when you learn the "proper" way. Students not understanding "why" something is done a certain way is the downfall of countless courses. But unfortunately, more often than not, you're not in a position to understand why people tell you to do X until you've personally done Y.
Balgair 6y ago
> If you find a really good tutorial by programmers who are both excellent teachers and experienced in that particular field For me at least, there is an over-abundance of thickly-accented English-speaking Indian people playing specifically trap music in the background, when it comes to 'good tutorials'. Not by any means a majority, but they punch well above their weight-class. It's so very odd, but they really do know how to guide me on what it is that I need a hand with.
Jugurtha 6y ago
Steve Huffman's web development course was excellent on Udacity.

julianlam 6y ago

> But at the start, there is no substitute. And the start lasts longer than you may think. Don't worry, he explicitly says this at the top. > Don’t get me wrong, I love MOOCs. They’re great for trying to learn a new programming language (e.g., Python, Scala) or framework (e.g., Spark, TensorFlow) or subject (e.g., statistics, machine learning). The structured learning environment, excellent teaching, and exercises (and solutions) guide us through the best way to learn new concepts. > >But most of the time, we don’t really need it. If we already know machine learning, taking that shiny new MOOC won’t help with applying it more effectively.

VBprogrammer 6y ago

As with so many things in life the best way probably doesn't live at either extreme. Often times I'll read about a subject and not fully understand it (and probably not even take the extra time to fully understand it) but when the problem comes up organically a light bulb goes off and I at least know what I'm googling for at that point.

krmmalik 6y ago

Continuing on with this train of thought, I agree with you. I'm not a programmer but I once had to learn how to use networking software for real world implementations, things like mailservers, firewalls etc etc. I did a fair bit of JIT but finally got hold of some courses for each piece of software. The bump in my knowledge and understanding was raised by a few orders of magnitude that almost 15 years later has still stuck with me. It's about funding the right expert as you say. The right person is invaluable.

ziml77 6y ago

This is the main reason that I still like proper books over quick tutorials. It's easy to end up fighting platforms and frameworks to make it do what you want. If you know the patterns and available features, it's less likely that you'll face the same levels of friction.

abcdabcd987 6y ago

> If you find a really good tutorial by programmers who are both excellent teachers and experienced in that particular field, it beats JIT learning on a personal project in one important respect. You get exposure to the One True Way of doing things. That's exactly my feeling when I was watching Jon Gjengset's Rust tutorials. I like his real reactions to unexpected problems. Really learned a lot from this kind of lengthy but realistic videos. https://www.youtube.com/c/JonGjengset/featured https://www.youtube.com/c/JonGjengset/featured

serjester 6y ago

The counterpoint is if you dive right into a project and make a bunch mistakes it'll stick a lot more when you learn the "proper" way. Students not understanding "why" something is done a certain way is the downfall of countless courses. But unfortunately, more often than not, you're not in a position to understand why people tell you to do X until you've personally done Y.

Balgair 6y ago

> If you find a really good tutorial by programmers who are both excellent teachers and experienced in that particular field For me at least, there is an over-abundance of thickly-accented English-speaking Indian people playing specifically trap music in the background, when it comes to 'good tutorials'. Not by any means a majority, but they punch well above their weight-class. It's so very odd, but they really do know how to guide me on what it is that I need a hand with.

Jugurtha 6y ago

Steve Huffman's web development course was excellent on Udacity.