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“should we conclude that, in fact, the findings were that the average person will revolt against an unjust authority,” History has repeatedly shown that a sign

“should we conclude that, in fact, the findings were that the average person will revolt against an unjust authority,” History has repeatedly shown that a significant number of people will actively play along and almost nobody will revolt. Otherwise the Nazi war crimes and Holocaust, My Lai, the purges and gulags under Stalin or the Khmer Rouge wouldn’t have happened. All these needed significant participation from a lot of average people. History also shows that no culture (as in religion or a certain part of the world) is immune from that.

watwut 6y ago
> All these needed significant participation from a lot of average people. Yes, but in all those cases, average people were someone who already went though a lot of indoctrination/propaganda. And average person was also under considerable danger he she/he defects. Average person both believed a lot of ideology and also feared for himself/herself/family. The general leaders of those were powerful players who actively believed their ideologies. The purges and gulags under Stalin were very from-top organized. They did not just impulsively went into it without planning. Instead, they made sure you have no realistic way to stop anything and that you do believe victims are the bad ones in the first place. That being said, Holocaust itself happened mostly in occupied territories when the German army had pretty much perfect control over the place. The average person was not much of a player, the military organized and backed it basically.
- WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
  > The purges and gulags under Stalin were very from-top organized. I'd like to ask you though, who exactly sent in all those millions of complaints about "enemies of the people"?
  - spaetzleesser 6y ago
    And how many people were needed to arrest people who were clearly innocent? The answer is : Many people needed to be willing to help.
  - watwut 6y ago
    0.) Just like people who upholded slavery in Americal or colonialozed, they were people of their time. Many people did believed in what they did when they sent people to death. They belied they have done right thing. 1.) Purges specifically had quotas for areas. If you refused to cooperate, you and your familly was purged. Specifically purges gave little good choice to participants. You literally had to participate or die. Wish to stay alive was frequent motivating factor. I will quote myself: average people were someone who already went though a lot of indoctrination/propaganda. And average person was also under considerable danger he she/he defects. Average person both believed a lot of ideology and also feared for himself/herself/family. The general leaders of those were powerful players who actively believed their ideologies. 3.) Your mythical average person outside of system and culture does not exists. "The average person" is living inside totalitarian system where opposing the system meant severe retaliation for years. It also means that if you oppose system, you are isolated and can't organize opposition. Nazi spend years trying to teach people, average Germans, that empathy toward emnemy is weakness. That manly men fight, are ruthless and kill enemies without empathy. The cruelty you see in WWII is also felt of pre exiasting belief in those Germans that what they do is right. The people of that time did not shared your values.

watwut 6y ago

> All these needed significant participation from a lot of average people. Yes, but in all those cases, average people were someone who already went though a lot of indoctrination/propaganda. And average person was also under considerable danger he she/he defects. Average person both believed a lot of ideology and also feared for himself/herself/family. The general leaders of those were powerful players who actively believed their ideologies. The purges and gulags under Stalin were very from-top organized. They did not just impulsively went into it without planning. Instead, they made sure you have no realistic way to stop anything and that you do believe victims are the bad ones in the first place. That being said, Holocaust itself happened mostly in occupied territories when the German army had pretty much perfect control over the place. The average person was not much of a player, the military organized and backed it basically.

WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
> The purges and gulags under Stalin were very from-top organized. I'd like to ask you though, who exactly sent in all those millions of complaints about "enemies of the people"?
- spaetzleesser 6y ago
  And how many people were needed to arrest people who were clearly innocent? The answer is : Many people needed to be willing to help.
- watwut 6y ago
  0.) Just like people who upholded slavery in Americal or colonialozed, they were people of their time. Many people did believed in what they did when they sent people to death. They belied they have done right thing. 1.) Purges specifically had quotas for areas. If you refused to cooperate, you and your familly was purged. Specifically purges gave little good choice to participants. You literally had to participate or die. Wish to stay alive was frequent motivating factor. I will quote myself: average people were someone who already went though a lot of indoctrination/propaganda. And average person was also under considerable danger he she/he defects. Average person both believed a lot of ideology and also feared for himself/herself/family. The general leaders of those were powerful players who actively believed their ideologies. 3.) Your mythical average person outside of system and culture does not exists. "The average person" is living inside totalitarian system where opposing the system meant severe retaliation for years. It also means that if you oppose system, you are isolated and can't organize opposition. Nazi spend years trying to teach people, average Germans, that empathy toward emnemy is weakness. That manly men fight, are ruthless and kill enemies without empathy. The cruelty you see in WWII is also felt of pre exiasting belief in those Germans that what they do is right. The people of that time did not shared your values.