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In Belgium, state-controlled planned economy is called "Communism". "Socialism" is all social security etc. So I actually agree with the parent comment. So in

In Belgium, state-controlled planned economy is called "Communism". "Socialism" is all social security etc. So I actually agree with the parent comment. So in US, "Communism"=="Socialism", in Western EU !=.

flohofwoe 6y ago
So by that definition I live in a "socialist country" (Germany) because it has a social safety net? And there I thought I had successfully escaped socialism in 1990 when the wall came down. Crap ;) (the GDR didn't call itself a "communist country", because the party realized that the poor condition of the economy doesn't quite fit the utopian ideals of "communism", so they invented the term "real socialism" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism) as one of multiple steps towards a glorious communist future, which would be realized "really soon now, just work a bit harder and one day we'll be rewarded with communism" - or something like that at least, of course nobody believed this bullshit, not even the diehard communists themselves).
- koonsolo 6y ago
  > So by that definition I live in a "socialist country" Not really the country like that, but the parties Christian Social Union and Social Democratic Party, we would name it "socialistic". Anyone in that party would be a "socialist", but not a "communist". So if they would deliver the Chancellor, we would say the country is run by a socialist. I didn't know about "real socialism". So glad you're all part of EU now :).
- lm28469 6y ago
  > So by that definition I live in a "socialist country" Depending on the definition you want to use. If you want to use "socialism" as the opposite of "capitalism" then of course no, Germany isn't a "socialist country". The being said Germany is a fairly "social" country in my book, very similar to France. They very often put the emphasis on the group rather than the individual (taxes, education, public infrastructures, health care, work/life balance, &c.) But again we're mostly talking semantics and local usage of words here, the underlying principles are very easy to tell apart (I doubt anyone could tell with a straight face that Germany and the US are running on the same principles for example.) now some people use the word "socialism" to describe that or part of it In France 20th century socialists fought a lot for workers rights, abolishing the death penalty, depenalizing homosexuality, warranting liveable minimum wages, earlier retirement age, paid vacations, paid parental leaves, &c, many of the rights we take for granted nowadays are direct or indirect achievements of socialists, which is logical since Europe (mostly invented and) soaked in socialism for the last 150+ years. That being said, yes modern France or Germany "socialism" evolved from their early definition but I still believe they're indefinitely more socialist than the US. I feel like many people get trapped in the socialism = communism, communism = never worked, hence communism = bad, hence socialism = bad, as if it was a binary thing. I guess we could argue about the exact meaning of "socialism" in 2020 but I doubt we can argue that "socialism" deeply marked a lot of European countries

flohofwoe 6y ago

So by that definition I live in a "socialist country" (Germany) because it has a social safety net? And there I thought I had successfully escaped socialism in 1990 when the wall came down. Crap ;) (the GDR didn't call itself a "communist country", because the party realized that the poor condition of the economy doesn't quite fit the utopian ideals of "communism", so they invented the term "real socialism" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism) as one of multiple steps towards a glorious communist future, which would be realized "really soon now, just work a bit harder and one day we'll be rewarded with communism" - or something like that at least, of course nobody believed this bullshit, not even the diehard communists themselves).

koonsolo 6y ago
> So by that definition I live in a "socialist country" Not really the country like that, but the parties Christian Social Union and Social Democratic Party, we would name it "socialistic". Anyone in that party would be a "socialist", but not a "communist". So if they would deliver the Chancellor, we would say the country is run by a socialist. I didn't know about "real socialism". So glad you're all part of EU now :).
lm28469 6y ago
> So by that definition I live in a "socialist country" Depending on the definition you want to use. If you want to use "socialism" as the opposite of "capitalism" then of course no, Germany isn't a "socialist country". The being said Germany is a fairly "social" country in my book, very similar to France. They very often put the emphasis on the group rather than the individual (taxes, education, public infrastructures, health care, work/life balance, &c.) But again we're mostly talking semantics and local usage of words here, the underlying principles are very easy to tell apart (I doubt anyone could tell with a straight face that Germany and the US are running on the same principles for example.) now some people use the word "socialism" to describe that or part of it In France 20th century socialists fought a lot for workers rights, abolishing the death penalty, depenalizing homosexuality, warranting liveable minimum wages, earlier retirement age, paid vacations, paid parental leaves, &c, many of the rights we take for granted nowadays are direct or indirect achievements of socialists, which is logical since Europe (mostly invented and) soaked in socialism for the last 150+ years. That being said, yes modern France or Germany "socialism" evolved from their early definition but I still believe they're indefinitely more socialist than the US. I feel like many people get trapped in the socialism = communism, communism = never worked, hence communism = bad, hence socialism = bad, as if it was a binary thing. I guess we could argue about the exact meaning of "socialism" in 2020 but I doubt we can argue that "socialism" deeply marked a lot of European countries