4 ms·

> Most people in Europe associate socialism with things like healthcare, paid vacations, &c. What? No they don't, at least not in Germany. Here, "socialism" is

by adwn 6y ago

> Most people in Europe associate socialism with things like healthcare, paid vacations, &c. What? No they don't, at least not in Germany. Here, "socialism" is primarily associated with the Soviet Union and the GDR (East Germany). "healthcare, paid vacations", in contrast, is not associated with any particular political system, because it's understood to be the baseline, or taken for granted. At best, it's associated with the "Sozialstaat". Note that the term "sozial" in German does not mean "socialism", but rather "caring for others"; it's an antonym to "anti-social", not to "capitalistic".

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
> No they don't, at least not in Germany. my experience is very different. maybe an indicator that the info-bubble is stronger than we believe and it all depends on where and _what_ we are. The "Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands" (SPD) literally has "socialist" in its name. Not once have I heard anyone claiming that they're linked to communism or Soviet Russia.
- flohofwoe 6y ago
  I wouldn't associate "social" and "social democracy" with "socialism" though (maybe that's because I've grown up in a socalist country - the GDR), and I wouldn't call SPD members "socialists", they're called "social-democrats". There seems to be an internal controversy between the SPD's left and right wing about the term "democratic socialism" though, which once was a stated future goal of the party.
- alentist 6y ago
  > The "Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands" (SPD) literally has "socialist" in its name. It literally does not.
- detaro 6y ago
  "Sozialdemokratisch" isn't the same as "sozialistisch"="socialist" in German usage.
lm28469 6y ago
> it's understood to be the baseline, or taken for granted. First off it's not in a very large part of the world (including the US). Read about the history of workers rights for example. These things didn't materialise out of thin air and are closely related to socialism ideals and social movements of the early 20th century > Note that the term "sozial" in German does not mean "socialism", but rather "caring for others" Which is exactly what I'm describing and includes "healthcare, paid vacations, &c." I'm not a German history expert but in France most of the "social" (hint) progress came from the "socialist" parties with Leon Blum &co for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léon_Blum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léon_Blum > André Léon Blum was a French socialist politician and three-time Prime Minister. > gave workers the right to strike > initiated collective bargaining > legislated the mandating of 12 days of paid annual leave > legislated a 40-hour working week (outside of overtime) > raised wages (15% for the lowest-paid workers, and 7% for the relatively well-paid) > stipulated that employers would recognise shop stewards. > ensured that there would be no retaliation against strikers.

by adwn 6y ago

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

> No they don't, at least not in Germany. my experience is very different. maybe an indicator that the info-bubble is stronger than we believe and it all depends on where and _what_ we are. The "Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands" (SPD) literally has "socialist" in its name. Not once have I heard anyone claiming that they're linked to communism or Soviet Russia.

flohofwoe 6y ago
I wouldn't associate "social" and "social democracy" with "socialism" though (maybe that's because I've grown up in a socalist country - the GDR), and I wouldn't call SPD members "socialists", they're called "social-democrats". There seems to be an internal controversy between the SPD's left and right wing about the term "democratic socialism" though, which once was a stated future goal of the party.
alentist 6y ago
> The "Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands" (SPD) literally has "socialist" in its name. It literally does not.
detaro 6y ago
"Sozialdemokratisch" isn't the same as "sozialistisch"="socialist" in German usage.

lm28469 6y ago

> it's understood to be the baseline, or taken for granted. First off it's not in a very large part of the world (including the US). Read about the history of workers rights for example. These things didn't materialise out of thin air and are closely related to socialism ideals and social movements of the early 20th century > Note that the term "sozial" in German does not mean "socialism", but rather "caring for others" Which is exactly what I'm describing and includes "healthcare, paid vacations, &c." I'm not a German history expert but in France most of the "social" (hint) progress came from the "socialist" parties with Leon Blum &co for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léon_Blum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léon_Blum > André Léon Blum was a French socialist politician and three-time Prime Minister. > gave workers the right to strike > initiated collective bargaining > legislated the mandating of 12 days of paid annual leave > legislated a 40-hour working week (outside of overtime) > raised wages (15% for the lowest-paid workers, and 7% for the relatively well-paid) > stipulated that employers would recognise shop stewards. > ensured that there would be no retaliation against strikers.