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The workers owning the means of production, it's not government handouts. "Socialism for the Rich" should be phrased as "Welfare for the Rich", IMO.

hoseja 6y ago
Are you sure you're not mixing up socialism/Marxism/communism/...?
- Miner49er 6y ago
  Pretty sure, yeah. The first line of Wikipedia's page on socialism: "Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and democratic control or workers' self-management of enterprises." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
  - lm28469 6y ago
    This is exactly what I'm talking about in my other comment. Look at the french definition on wiki for example: "The word socialism covers a very diverse set of currents of thought and political movements1, whose common point is to seek a fairer social and economic organization. The original goal of socialism is to achieve social equality, or at least a reduction of inequalities2 and, especially for the Marxist-inspired currents, to establish a classless society. More broadly, socialism can be defined as a political tendency, historically marked on the left, whose basic principle is the aspiration for a better world, based on harmonious social organization and the fight against injustice. Depending on the context, the word socialism or the adjective socialist can qualify an ideology, a political party, a political regime or a social organization."
killtimeatwork 6y ago
> The workers owning the means of production This has lost a lot of its relevance since when it was originally coined in XIX century. I mean, what are the means of production in companies like CD Project Red? The laptops and workstations? Employees can easily afford them. Since we've moved beyond the factory-based model of capitalism, it's become clear that it's not the control of means of production that is the central issue.
- Miner49er 6y ago
  I think it's still a useful term. To make a company socialist, all you have to do is distribute the companies shares to the workers, rather than shareholders. Now you have a co-op and the workers own the means of production, and can vote on the board of directors or set it up however, since they own it.
- toti 6y ago
  > I mean, what are the means of production in companies like CD Project Red? The means to deploy knowledge. This ranges from a robust social safety net (healthcare, childcare, housing, food, etc) to as you say laptops and workstations. > Employees can easily afford them. For a very specific set of Employees, this is true. For others the outlay for even a derelict hand-me-down laptop is the difference between making this months rent and not. > Since we've moved beyond the factory-based model of capitalism The factory isn't making "widgets" anymore, but it's still there and it's making /something/. > it's become clear that it's not the control of means of production that is the central issue Owning the means has, is, and will be the central issue until we are post scarcity.

hoseja 6y ago

Are you sure you're not mixing up socialism/Marxism/communism/...?

Miner49er 6y ago
Pretty sure, yeah. The first line of Wikipedia's page on socialism: "Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and democratic control or workers' self-management of enterprises." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
- lm28469 6y ago
  This is exactly what I'm talking about in my other comment. Look at the french definition on wiki for example: "The word socialism covers a very diverse set of currents of thought and political movements1, whose common point is to seek a fairer social and economic organization. The original goal of socialism is to achieve social equality, or at least a reduction of inequalities2 and, especially for the Marxist-inspired currents, to establish a classless society. More broadly, socialism can be defined as a political tendency, historically marked on the left, whose basic principle is the aspiration for a better world, based on harmonious social organization and the fight against injustice. Depending on the context, the word socialism or the adjective socialist can qualify an ideology, a political party, a political regime or a social organization."

killtimeatwork 6y ago

> The workers owning the means of production This has lost a lot of its relevance since when it was originally coined in XIX century. I mean, what are the means of production in companies like CD Project Red? The laptops and workstations? Employees can easily afford them. Since we've moved beyond the factory-based model of capitalism, it's become clear that it's not the control of means of production that is the central issue.

Miner49er 6y ago
I think it's still a useful term. To make a company socialist, all you have to do is distribute the companies shares to the workers, rather than shareholders. Now you have a co-op and the workers own the means of production, and can vote on the board of directors or set it up however, since they own it.
toti 6y ago
> I mean, what are the means of production in companies like CD Project Red? The means to deploy knowledge. This ranges from a robust social safety net (healthcare, childcare, housing, food, etc) to as you say laptops and workstations. > Employees can easily afford them. For a very specific set of Employees, this is true. For others the outlay for even a derelict hand-me-down laptop is the difference between making this months rent and not. > Since we've moved beyond the factory-based model of capitalism The factory isn't making "widgets" anymore, but it's still there and it's making /something/. > it's become clear that it's not the control of means of production that is the central issue Owning the means has, is, and will be the central issue until we are post scarcity.