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I'd say anything that prevents you from, for instance, browsing the internet for pleasure counts as work. Meeting in a boardroom? Work. Zoom call in which you h

I'd say anything that prevents you from, for instance, browsing the internet for pleasure counts as work. Meeting in a boardroom? Work. Zoom call in which you have to regularly participate? Work. Zoom call you can basically ignore while you read HN? Not work.

Bootvis 6y ago
In that zoom call I’m not walking along the beach or napping on the couch or cleaning the house or any other activity I prefer to attending a meeting. So I’d say it’s work as well.
- intev 6y ago
  By that logic, you could get away with doing <anything that is not my most favorite thing> and calling it work. You must be "working" a lot ;)
  - necovek 6y ago
    Are you suggesting that cleaning their house is their "most favorite thing"? While not impossible, I find it implausible ;)
  - toyg 6y ago
    if that time is paid-for by someone else and you cannot decide what it is used for, then it's work. Period.
  - bhaak 6y ago
    As long as you get paid for it, it's work. A Zoom call you can basically ignore but have to be around. Still work but not "working".
eru 6y ago
That's an interesting definition. I'm not sure it's useful. Eg when I am oncall out of hours, I could browse HN almost all the time, but it is still low-intensity work, even if nothing breaks and pages on that day.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Oncall is a bit special, usually counted as partial time work for time spent not responding to calls, or with overtime rates for time actually called in.
  - eru 6y ago
    At Google SRE we had a flat ratio regardless of whether you had a page or not. The idea was two-fold: reduces paperwork, and incentivizes the SRE team to reduce alerts that have to be dealt with. In any case, my main point was that anything that prevents me from having a beer or going bungee jumping is 'work' in my books. Though, obviously, there are different levels of intensity.
acdha 6y ago
> Zoom call you can basically ignore while you read HN? Not work. Still work: if it’s preventing you from focusing but not personal time, it’s work. Your employer choosing to waste your time on low productivity meetings is something to try to improve but you shouldn’t feel any obligation to make up for it with your own free time.
grep_name 6y ago
Disagree. I may be on HN right now, but if I were not at work I wouldn't be on HN. I wouldn't be on my computer at all, in fact. Right now I am available, which provides value to my employer at my personal expense. Not using part of my life in the way I see fit because I need to make a living? Work.
- Causality1 6y ago
  It's not a binary solution set. People locked in a jail cell are not working either.

Bootvis 6y ago

In that zoom call I’m not walking along the beach or napping on the couch or cleaning the house or any other activity I prefer to attending a meeting. So I’d say it’s work as well.

intev 6y ago
By that logic, you could get away with doing <anything that is not my most favorite thing> and calling it work. You must be "working" a lot ;)
- necovek 6y ago
  Are you suggesting that cleaning their house is their "most favorite thing"? While not impossible, I find it implausible ;)
- toyg 6y ago
  if that time is paid-for by someone else and you cannot decide what it is used for, then it's work. Period.
- bhaak 6y ago
  As long as you get paid for it, it's work. A Zoom call you can basically ignore but have to be around. Still work but not "working".

eru 6y ago

That's an interesting definition. I'm not sure it's useful. Eg when I am oncall out of hours, I could browse HN almost all the time, but it is still low-intensity work, even if nothing breaks and pages on that day.

srtjstjsj 6y ago
Oncall is a bit special, usually counted as partial time work for time spent not responding to calls, or with overtime rates for time actually called in.
- eru 6y ago
  At Google SRE we had a flat ratio regardless of whether you had a page or not. The idea was two-fold: reduces paperwork, and incentivizes the SRE team to reduce alerts that have to be dealt with. In any case, my main point was that anything that prevents me from having a beer or going bungee jumping is 'work' in my books. Though, obviously, there are different levels of intensity.

acdha 6y ago

> Zoom call you can basically ignore while you read HN? Not work. Still work: if it’s preventing you from focusing but not personal time, it’s work. Your employer choosing to waste your time on low productivity meetings is something to try to improve but you shouldn’t feel any obligation to make up for it with your own free time.

grep_name 6y ago

Disagree. I may be on HN right now, but if I were not at work I wouldn't be on HN. I wouldn't be on my computer at all, in fact. Right now I am available, which provides value to my employer at my personal expense. Not using part of my life in the way I see fit because I need to make a living? Work.

Causality1 6y ago
It's not a binary solution set. People locked in a jail cell are not working either.