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This smells like some really bold and really ridiculous PR attempt. "Ikea uses about one percent—yes, one percent—of the world's entire commercial wood supply.

This smells like some really bold and really ridiculous PR attempt. "Ikea uses about one percent—yes, one percent—of the world's entire commercial wood supply. That amounts to about 17.8 million cubic yards of lumber last year. " [1] I guess they need this PR purchase to appease some eko organization. And this is equally ridiculous. Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. Why they have to explain themselves for doing something useful? What should they use to produce furniture? Would plastic be any better? Iron? Stone? [1] https://inhabitat.com/one-percent-of-all-the-worlds-commercial-wood-is-used-to-make-ikea-products/ https://inhabitat.com/one-percent-of-all-the-worlds-commerci...

loceng 6y ago
It's because they're fighting the arguably true reality that the majority of their furniture is designed to be disposable, and consumers are generally fine with that. I'd like to be wrong, though until we require companies to be responsible for all costs associated with the full lifecycle of a product so externalized costs are incorporated, we're not going to develop the most sustainable practices.
- xyzzy123 6y ago
  I think this is not as easy a calculus as one might imagine. Heirloom furniture is in some ways less sustainable than Ikea products. I am not sure there would be enough sustainable hardwood in the world to meet demand at the scale of Ikea. People have different furniture needs than they did decades ago, and in terms of weight, logistics, material use, Ikea are quite efficient.
  - helmholtz 6y ago
    The complication is EXACTLY why we need to be even more in panic and hair-on-fire about environmental issues. A colleague did some analyses for the life cycle emissions of refrigerants. The complexity in the process was absurd, and basically intractable without simplifications. How much indirect CO2 emissions are caused by an inefficient compressor? How much does it depend on how you generate electricity? Which country were the gaskets manufactured in? What was the process used to extract the rare earths? Everything depends on everything else and consequences are pretty unknown.
    - afarrell 6y ago
      > even more in panic and hair-on-fire about environmental issues Panic is rarely useful. It might lead you to move at high and low velocity.
      - afarrell 6y ago
        that should be: high speed and low velocity.
    - fastball 6y ago
      Hence why the real solution has always been: 1. Electrify everything possible 2. Shift all electricity production to renewables, massively increase power output with nuclear nuclear nuclear. 3. Carbon capture.
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        Ooh and stop mining Bitcoin
        loceng 6y ago
        But how else will people make money than in a global, decentralized pyramid/MLM scheme?
        WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
        s/make/lose/ But I see your point. We should make a pyramid/MLM scheme where you're promised rewards for planting trees, segregating waste, cleaning up in any potential wildlife habitats, and reducing/reusing stuff in general.
        fastball 6y ago
        Actually, as part of "Electrify everything", it would probably be good to replace a significant chunk of the banking system with a cryptocurrency layer (maybe bitcoin, maybe not). With green energy, digital gold is a lot more green than physical gold. Bitcoin is like electric cars – not super green right in this moment when the grid is still dirty, but all it takes to make it greener is to green up the grid. Meanwhile the classical banking system: uses all forms of transport which green up slower (armored cars, planes, etc), requires crazy amounts of construction (I don't even want to guess how much cement has been used in the construction of physical banks all over the world), all those buildings use energy for AC/lighting/etc, require huge amounts of manpower to manage trust in the system (people definitely aren't green), and also need their own datacenters anyway. And I'm sure I'm forgetting some things, where as with BTC pretty much all consumption is baked into mining, which again just gets greener automatically as the grid gets greener. Nobody is running a Bitcoin mining operation off of diesel generators. If you did the math (impractical given the breadth of the existing banking system), I think you'd find Bitcoin is already far greener than the existing banking system, by a huge margin. And cryptos like Ethereum have the potential to 10x/100x/1000x that with things like PoS vs. PoW as well as the fact that Ethereum smart contracts can not only replace banking but probably other industries as well, such as title companies and various other middlemen.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    The biggest problem is that furniture, instead of a class of objects with longevity and functionality has now become a fashion article, and IKEA is a large factor in that shift.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      I buy utility furniture at the thrift store. When I'm done with it, it goes back to the thrift store :-)
      - dagw 6y ago
        it goes back to the thrift store Last time I moved I found that thrift stores are very picky about what furniture they accept.
        2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
        Take care of your furniture or give it away to those in need?
        dagw 6y ago
        give it away to those in need? Tried that as well. They took a dining table with a few scratches in it, but no charity I talked to wanted bookshelves or TV stands/media benches.
        WalterBright 6y ago
        If I get it from the thrift store, it surely meets their criteria for donations. I'm a bit picky on what I select, too. For example, no upholstered stuff, because of possible bedbugs.
    - maccard 6y ago
      Not to beat the snowflake millenial drum too hard, but my parents moved from the house they've owned since they were younger than me. They have furniture like bookcases, beds, couches, tables, much of which they offered to me. But I live in a 2 bedroom apartment that is less than 1/3 of the size of their house, so it just doesn't fit. As an example, their dining room table is wider than my living room! I can't take any of that furniture from our family home into my current home whether I want to or not, and even as a dual income household, with one working in tech, we can't afford to buy a house that would fit even half of their furniture.
  - bombcar 6y ago
    There's a world of difference between Ikea particleboard crap and heirloom furniture - you can make quite useful and durable furniture from pine board; Ikea actually does (though they could stand to spend some time on the design, the IVAR system is BY FAR the worst storage related problem I've ever dealt with; tossed that into the fire and got Uline wire shelves instead). Moving the lifecycle of a piece of furniture from 3-5 years closer to 20 is highly worth it; even if I no longer need it I prefer to leave it on the curb for someone else than have to shove it into the trash can. And these metal shelves will last longer than I will - and can move to the garage if I no longer need them.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
      I like Ivar ...
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Doesn't seem that bad to make forests, then cut them down, mix them together with stuff that makes them non-compostable and then just jamming it in the ground. Some local pollution, but you ultimately are sequestering the carbon, so all is well.
  - loceng 6y ago
    Is there a silent /sarcasm tag at the end of this comment?
    - the_other 6y ago
      It doesn’t read as sarcasm to me. The bulk of the ideas seem “in the right direction”, just with a bunch of gaps and uncertainty. The gaps and uncertainty are where research and conversation live. I read the comment in that spirit.
    - refurb 6y ago
      It's carbon capture isn't it? Use fast growing wood, make furniture by gluing flakes together. If it gets tossed, it just sits underground.
      - jononor 6y ago
        Need to make sure it does not rot (releases methane), or get burned. And that the environmental cost of transportation does not outweigh the benefit. But otherwise it is a potential mechanism, I guess.
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Assuming it does stay underground, instead of rotting away in a landfill. GGP said "non-compostable", but I presume they meant "not suitable for composting", and not "physically unable to decay".
  - laurent92 6y ago
    In 3 millenias: « Woah! Free chopped wood for our furnaces, from just a dozen feet underground! » — Wait, exactly what we did.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  A lot of their furniture is made of materials like chipboard, which is made with waste byproducts and low quality leftovers. This certainly can be more efficient and environment-friendly than using prime slow-growth oak (for example).
- baxtr 6y ago
  The resale value of my Ikea stuff was quite high. This doesn’t support your argument, at least for my region and IKEA.
  - loceng 6y ago
    One factor missing from conversation is timescale.
  - calvano915 6y ago
    Idea has levels of quality. But some must view it all as disposable and low quality because how else could they justify spending 3x or more at other furniture stores. Most shop at Ikea for affordability, style options, and a good return guarantee.
- rightbyte 6y ago
  My experience with Ikea furniture is that they last - even abusive children. It is not Ikea's fault furniture is thrown away really. Danish Design type of furniture is what breaks if you are not careful. I.e. slick nice looking chairs and what not.
- FriedrichN 6y ago
  I've been using a lot of IKEA furniture for many years, some new, some secondhand (sometimes I'm the third or fourth owner) and I must say they're quite durable unlike some of the new furniture I've bought over the year and had to throw away.
  - tweetle_beetle 6y ago
    The annoying thing about IKEA furniture, and that from competitors, is that all it takes is for a tiny piece of particle board to be damaged internally for the whole item to be useless. Generally, while they are in one piece and not moved, they are fine. But trasnporting or disassembling this stuff is a risk. The tiny wooden pegs, plastic bits and agressive screws going straight into soft board can rip out chunks, snap off, etc. Good luck getting a replacement door, etc.
    - kuschku 6y ago
      You can just go to any IKEA and buy a replacement part? Every single part they've ever sold is available at the replacement desk in their stores (at least here in Germany). Even individual screws, legs, etc. When I broke a door and one of the hinges of a kitchen cabinet, I just went to IKEA and bought a replacement door (of the exact same type) and replacement hinge) and replaced them.
      - codebolt 6y ago
        You can also search for the serial number on eBay and typically find a compatible part.
      - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
        Not available in the US. The only thing they will do is either sell you spare small parts or issue a refund.
        Pasorrijer 6y ago
        I find this odd, in Canada we can get all the replacement parts needed. Just may have to wait a bit but they have them.
- ramraj07 6y ago
  Citation needed that wood based products are bad for the environment compared to say plastic. The alternative to IKEA crap is injection molded crap, so perhaps this is the better of the two evils.
- flarg 6y ago
  Seasoned IKEA customer here. They have two types of products, one type is durable and the other is not and it's pretty easy to tell the difference from the price. Desks and bookcases are good examples of the former.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    They also have disposable desks and bookcases. Look for furniture that will withstand someone leaning or sitting on it. The cheap designs are held together with cam-lock nuts and bolts or screws, and it's inevitable that at some point someone will lean on the desk and pull the screws through the particle board. Furniture that will last longer has multiple fixings to keep it square, or diagonal cross-pieces (or a flat sheet). This is going to last much longer: ..._____________ ..._______•__•_| \\ | | \\ | | \\ | | \\| | \| | | | Than this: ..._____________ ..._________•__| | | | | | | | | | | | |
- FooBarWidget 6y ago
  Disposable? I've never had to throw away any IKEA furniture. These things can easily last 15 years.
  - vianneychevalie 6y ago
    15 years? My table is 90. My grandparents bought it used when they first moved together after their wedding. Hardwood and a bit of care once in a while (2-3 years, waxing) goes a long way.
    - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
      Survivorship bias. Most furniture from 30+ years ago is broken. The older it gets, the more likely it is to have been broken. For your grandparents (and the folks they passed it on to), it means: You were able to have space for the table all the years, and didn't move into a place where it didn't fit. It means it didn't have accidents. Do you have chairs that came with it - or did they break too (very common)? If you do have the chairs, are they sturdy enough for a child to climb on and wiggle in? (many aren't). It means they didn't have a fire or break the table when moving it (if they moved over the years). It means they could wax it and so could everyone else. It means they could do repairs when needed. It means that it didn't rot despite waxing. It means that you (and/or other family members) also had a space for it: If you bought an old piece used, it meant that there was an avenue to sell it. And a bunch of things like that. 90 year old furniture isn't the norm, and can hardly be used to verify that older things are made better (and besides, they had some cheap stuff too).
- biztos 6y ago
  Not to pile on to the anecdata here, but I've owned a lot of different Ikea furniture over the years, and in the words of (I think) Douglas Coupland it's "semi-disposable." Much of it will last a lifetime as long as you never disassemble it or move it further than the next room. Some of it is more fragile than that. Very rarely something is more durable -- here's looking at you, Klippan!
- mystcb 6y ago
  From a different point of view, I would say that I don't see their furniture as "designed to be disposable", more that there is good marked for re-use through other people. Spotted a few comments from people saying they have had second hand items (3rd, 4th etc) - and I think that in my head is where my version of "disposable" has come from. When I no longer want an Ikea product because it doesn't fit, or no longer needed - I will sell it online, and get a new one - for me I have "disposed of it" but actually its been "recycled" to someone that really wants it. Anecdotally - I have never thrown away any IKEA furniture due to old age or defects. It's always been passed on, or I have received a new one. - Admittedly this is just my POV, and I fully understand people have their own experiences - but I would like to think that in some small part, I am helping with that sustainable process. IKEA in this case, I am glad that they are at least trying to do something (again not saying other companies don't but we are in a thread about IKEA's recent work!) - and I would like to think that to round of the ring of sustainability that it isn't just the companies that need to input, its the people that use it too. Maybe I am being too idealistic, but I will do what I can in my small little bubble to be part of that sustainable process! I realise I got this far and didn't think about the point I was trying to make! - But yeah, from my perspective I don't feel like IKEA design it to be disposable, but I am sure other people have other experiences too :)
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    When people say "designed to be disposable" they don't mean reuse is not possible - just not likely, because a thing wears out quickly, or is a hassle to give someone else. Former means there's not much of a second-hand market, the latter means that even giving away for free is too much work compared to just dumping it. I'm very much surprised about the amount of comments here on HN (today and in many previous discussions) that claim to reuse IKEA furniture; it's completely contrary to my experience. My opinion of IKEA furniture is that it's single-assembly - trying to break it apart irreparably destroys it. I conclude there must be either high variance in IKEA's production quality, or we're comparing apples to oranges. Maybe some IKEA products have more reassembly potential than others. Someone mentioned an office chair elsewhere in the thread - yeah, that obviously can last years and be moved, because it's made of metal and hard plastics. But most IKEA furniture I experienced is made of dried toilet paper glued with formaldehyde^W^W^W^W^W^Wmedium-density fibreboard and assembles destructively.
- randomsearch 6y ago
  I’ve been using my disposable desk for 10 years now, and my disposable shelves for even longer than that. Not sure I’ve ever thrown away IKEA furniture, though I have sold some and given other items away.
- dkdbejwi383 6y ago
  I wish this was extended to many other products. Automobiles for example, should incorporate the costs associated with poisoning our air (including EVs as rubber tyres shed microparticles). A bottle of coke should incorporate the cost of fishing the plastic out of the ocean.
  - ehnto 6y ago
    Tires and brakes are both emitters, admittedly with motor braking you probably emit less total brake dust in an EV in a comparatively heavy ICE car. Also still included in an EV is the carbon cost of mining, refining and manufacturing: - Metal parts - Plastic parts - Organic fabric parts (raising cattle, big cost. Pleather? Still costly, and now it's plastic too, can't win) - Battery minerals and production - Electronics manufacturing - Glass manufacturing I am still all for EVs mind you, hell yes. But they are a massively consumptive item.
- beowulfey 6y ago
  If you compare Ikea furniture to the comparable items you get from Target or Walmart, Ikea is hands down far better quality. Sure it might not last generations, but it is affordable and built from basically sawdust so I have to imagine their 1% usage comes from simply the scale of their production rather than inefficiency or anything like that.
- felipelemos 6y ago
  > I'd like to be wrong, though until we require companies to be responsible for all costs associated with the full lifecycle of a product so externalized costs are incorporated, we're not going to develop the most sustainable practices. Why only the companies should be responsible? I would say it's fairer to share the "blame" with everyone else. The consumers, the government, the whole society.
- jonfw 6y ago
  who are the next largest furniture manufacturers, and how does Ikea's durability/sustainability match up with them? Ikea doesn't compete with hardwood furniture... They compete with Wayfair, target, and Walmart furniture. Ikea builds a significantly better product with the same materials IMO.
namdnay 6y ago
I guess the argument would go that we would be better off building small quantities of long-lasting re-usable furniture, rather than building and throwing away lots of new cheaper furniture The low prices at Ikea and others definitely encourage over-consumption - buying a new table instead of restoring an old one for example Personally I don't necessarily subscribe to this argument, I think that we can focus on bigger sources of pollution/waste than transporting flatpack lumber, but I can see the argument
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  Buying new stuff in the west is now cheaper than repairing old items - this is a combination of outsourcing production, loosing skills, and deliberate efforts by compabies like Apple and Sonor to make their equipment unrepairable. https://youtu.be/Npd_xDuNi9k https://youtu.be/Npd_xDuNi9k
  - xyzzy123 6y ago
    Also cost of human labour vs automation. Manufacturing is done by machines but maintenance and repair are generally carried out by humans. Agree that hostile design or just lack of attention are also huge issues.
  - the_other 6y ago
    Is it “cheaper” environmentally?
    - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
      Possibly. If you want to fix furniture, you need space and tools, so you need bigger houses (or the ability to move the furniture to a community spot) and tools. Tools will generally be made of metal, and needs factories to make these tools. Some of the parts are available freely: I'm guessing not all are. Manufacturing will need to be different as well if your pieces aren't designed to be repaired in such a way: Who knows if this would be more environmentally friendly. Not to mention that it is a skill, so a repair might not even repair it but break it further - but now we've made the tools and things on top of the furniture (that didn't even use up scraps of wood, but caused them).
mstokholm 6y ago
Well, just because they're producing something useful doesn't mean they can't give back at the same time! Small changes add up.
- andretti1977 6y ago
  Exactly. I don't know if Ikea has an ethical way of producing its goods, anyhow if they do something useful, it doesn't hurt. I won't say Ikea is a benefactor company because they preserved that land, but it certainly won't bother me!
Melting_Harps 6y ago
> This smells like some really bold and really ridiculous PR attempt. Of course it is, they just use illegal loggers in Romania to offset their actual need for the crappy disposable stuff they produce. They seem to get away with that no problem, despite EU restrictions on it. I've never seen the appeal of IKEA when it came to furniture, the long lines at some of the bigger ones I've been to (for breakfast) are baffling and you'd think they were giving the stuff away given how long some people would wait to get in. It all looks and feels so cheap, it looks like what they use when staging a home for sale or what a cheap studio set looks like for a 1 shot scene in a movie. IKEA had to settle so many wrongful infant deaths in the US, something that arguably could have been prevented by the parents, but it doesn't undo the fact that it comes down to a sub-standard QC/QA practices and literately no engineering in their design team. But, IKEA (now a Dutch company not Swedish despite its branding) is the China of furniture and focuses on that business model: cheap, disposable items that are profitable only at immense scale. > Well, just because they're producing something useful doesn't mean they can't give back at the same time! Small changes add up. Ha, useful... I'm guessing you've never lived near a University. the amount of IKEA crap that shows up in the dumpsters near off campus apartments at the end of the term is enough to make you forget about the word 'useful' when describing IKEA ever again. I've spent most of my time near Universities in the US, and its always the same crap littering the area after finals. The cheap plywood gets warped if it snows outside so most of its damaged beyond repair for even 2nd hand use. I wanted some night stands to use as in the garage for my tools once when I was in HS and was willing to do some repair work, but after dragging the thing a block it literately fell apart and the plywood had disintegrated and warped beyond use.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  IKEA is just as dutch as the Rolling Stones.
  - oblio 6y ago
    Well, it is Dutch. Just saying it isn't doesn't change anything. They're registered in the Netherlands and operate in accordance with Dutch laws.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
There are some serious allegations that Ikea sources illegally harvested wood and convinces regulatora to look the other way https://fsc-watch.com/2020/07/02/ikeas-ukrainian-illegal-timber-problem-that-fsc-didnt-notice/ https://fsc-watch.com/2020/07/02/ikeas-ukrainian-illegal-tim...
- oblio 6y ago
  He he: http://skyddaskogen.se/en/news/4852-ikea-s-forest-in-romania-could-be-stolen http://skyddaskogen.se/en/news/4852-ikea-s-forest-in-romania... They've had these issues for at least 5 years, I remember reading about it back in 2015.
deleted 6y ago
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j1elo 6y ago
I guess this has started, indeed. In Spain, one of the Twitter trending topics is a promoted Ikea hashtag loosely translated to "unknowingly being an activist"... so I'm assuming it refers to this movement
collyw 6y ago
It does smell like a PR attempt. But if a PR attempt is what it takes do something better than what came before I don't mind.
pelasaco 6y ago
When I read it, I read it like "IKEA Buys 11,000 Acres of U.S. Forest to Keep It From Being Developed for now"
KorematsuFred 6y ago
> Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. Why they have to explain themselves for doing something useful? What should they use to produce furniture? Would plastic be any better? Iron? Stone? Unfortunately we live in a world where virtue signaling is more important than actual virtues and winning arguments is more important than actual winning. Yes this is a PR thing and will help to create a positive public image that IKEA hopes will help them thwart the evil eyes of the rent seeking politicians. Note: A tree is useful and carbon negative only if it is growing a tree in forest that has stopped growing is mostly useless for offsetting carbon, if anything we need a Logging 2.0 where we cut down a lot of trees and use them for long term purposes such as furniture, housing, infrastructure etc. and plant and grow new trees. > Why they have to explain themselves for doing something useful? They don't have to and neither does Amazon, Google, Exxon and thousand other companies have to explain anything to the public or govermint and yet you see so many attempts by government and activists to force them to explain.
- Jochim 6y ago
  There appears to be two camps of people in this debate. Those who expect corporations to behave according to the ethics and morals of society and those who believe corporations should attempt to extract as much profit as possible. To those in the second camp I'd ask, why shouldn't society seek to place limits on corporate behaviour when it believes that behaviour is harmful to the long term goals of society? Why should the profit motive be put before social need? Without social and governmental intervention we'd still have cigarette companies paying doctors to promote their products as safe and healthy. We'd still be experiencing crime waves brought on by leaded gasoline and fireproofing would still be made from asbestos. Should the government and activists have allowed these things to continue? If not, what differentiates them from expecting Ikea to responsibly manage it's consumption of lumber?
- hibbelig 6y ago
  > _Note: A tree is useful and carbon negative only if it is growing a tree in forest that has stopped growing is mostly useless for offsetting carbon,_ Don't trees grow till they die?
macspoofing 6y ago
>Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. Exactly, IKEA *processes* one percent of commercial wood supply to build furniture for people. People who want furniture from IKEA use one percent of commercial wood supply. People want furniture made out of wood. Same logic applies to oil companies who extract oil and WE use it to drive cars, take buses, use plastics, build roads etc.
paganel 6y ago
Not throwing furniture away every few years will seriously help solve the problem. Of course, that would mean fewer sales for companies like IKEA.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  They already think the Western world has reached peak stuff: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/weve-hit-peak-home-furnishings-says-ikea-boss-consumerism https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/weve-hit-pe...
  - paganel 6y ago
    Of course they would say that. And even if that were true, their prospective sales don't depend on the "Western" world only, not to say anything about the fact that equating "the Western world does not buy stuff anymore" with "the world doesn't buy stuff anymore" is peak orientalist (but this being standard corporate communication it does not surprise me).
shafyy 6y ago
> Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. The problem is that, like with clothes, people THINK they need more and newer things all the time because Marketing tells them that they do. I read somewhere (can't find the link right now) that shit tons of clothes and other items are not laying around in warehouses not being sold (due to lockdown) and I don't see people walking around naked in the streets. So, before buying something, ask yourself: 1) Do I really need it? 2) Can I buy it used?
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Well the thing with furniture is that it fills up your place quickly. As apartments get smaller (most countries are in a housing crisis) that pretty much stops people buying furniture they don't need. I only ever buy furniture because I really have a need for it. Not because I think it's cool or anything.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    Downsizing creates a market opening for cabinets, shelves, organizers and other things that let you utilize vertical space more efficiently.
  - shafyy 6y ago
    That's great, but I assure you, a lot of people just throw out old furniture and buy new ones just because they feel like their old furniture is out of style.
- minikites 6y ago
  >The problem is that, like with clothes, people THINK they need more and newer things all the time because Marketing tells them that they do. This is a problem with capitalism, not IKEA or clothing.
  - shafyy 6y ago
    Maybe, but companies do have choices and don't need to blindly maximize profit.
random_upvoter 6y ago
The thing with IKEA is that most of their furniture looks good at first sight, but when it's been in your living room for a couple of years you tend to become very aware of the somewhat generic blandness of the design, the cheapness of the material and that micro-tuned "just good enough" build quality to the point that it begins to irk. You don't love a piece of IKEA and it is not something you're going to hand to your children when that time comes. I'm quite sure almost all IKEA furniture ends up in landfill within 30 years, so all pretense at durability seems misguided to me. Also people say IKEA is cheap but IMO it's actually rather expensive for what you're getting. Walk into an auction room and see what you can get for that 200 euro.
znpy 6y ago
We'll see how that goes, but if they pursue some kind of vertical integration where they can make their own wood in a sustainable way... that'd be pretty sweet imho. OTOH, it was recently announced that in order to promote sustainability, IKEA is going to sell spare parts too. That's pretty good imho. And keep in mind that we're talking about wood, something that's fairly recyclable, all things considered: imagine if apple started doing the same with iphone and macbook pro parts (that is selling spares directly to consumers)
gigatexal 6y ago
I thought it might be a tax harvesting plan. Dunno. Last I looked into Ikea I thought their whole corporate structure was odd: the stores are part of a non-profit holding company that licenses the brand and furniture as art or something to that affect. Seems dodgy.
- alacombe 6y ago
  Of course, everybody is doing that.
Closi 6y ago
17.8 million cubic yards is such a crazy unit of measure. If we convert that into acres we get... c11k Acres. So they have bought and protected roughly what they will use across the next year, effectively like an offset.
- alacombe 6y ago
  Only if they do that every year.
jwr 6y ago
Well, in terms of carbon in the atmosphere, making furniture from wood actually makes a lot of sense, assuming you use sustainable forestry (replant the same amount or more). That carbon in your furniture isn't going into the air anytime soon, hopefully never.
- vbezhenar 6y ago
  I run some numbers in the past and I think that going all-in to wood houses and stuff really makes lots of sense. It's not a solution to all CO2 problems, but having lots of wood in the forests AND lots of wood in people houses allows to keep a sizeable chunk of carbon from atmosphere. It's a shame that wood is not as popular nowadays. Of course people should regrow two trees for every one cut.
- jojobas 6y ago
  Wood rots in landfills. You have to char it to stop that.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    Googling studies indicates that the vast vast majority of carbon (97%) does not get released but simply stays in landfills.
gregoriol 6y ago
IKEA uses wood? really? I thought they used shitty agglomerates and other mixes in their furniture, maybe all the wood is for something else?
- smileybarry 6y ago
  They have some full wood products, some of their pricier desks, dining tables and kitchen countertops are full wood. Maybe all those thin wood covers on everything else add up, too.
  - agloeregrets 6y ago
    Yup, many full wood items. One of their cheapest dressers is pure pine. The Poang is just laminated wood.
surfsvammel 6y ago
Isn’t it a sad world we live in when our gut feeling always is that “this smells like a PR trick”. I’m not saying it isn’t, just that it’s sad that we have built a world where we don’t trust our companies motivations.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  HN is particularly cynical though, the top post on nearly every article is negative.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>"Ikea uses about one percent—yes, one percent—of the world's entire commercial wood supply. That amounts to about 17.8 million cubic yards of lumber last year. Yeah, seems a little over the top to me too. Ikea makes particle board furniture. Particle board is basically glue plus waste products from all the other things that use wood. You might as well complain that the dog food and fertilizer industries uses some % of the world's meat.
hyperbovine 6y ago
Fun fact, wood is a renewable resource that sequesters carbon.
ashtonkem 6y ago
They’re also making more of it because it doesn’t last anywhere near as long as it used to. A chest of drawers made out of oak or good plywood (yes, plywood can be good) used to last a literal lifetime. It also costs a lot more.

loceng 6y ago

It's because they're fighting the arguably true reality that the majority of their furniture is designed to be disposable, and consumers are generally fine with that. I'd like to be wrong, though until we require companies to be responsible for all costs associated with the full lifecycle of a product so externalized costs are incorporated, we're not going to develop the most sustainable practices.

xyzzy123 6y ago
I think this is not as easy a calculus as one might imagine. Heirloom furniture is in some ways less sustainable than Ikea products. I am not sure there would be enough sustainable hardwood in the world to meet demand at the scale of Ikea. People have different furniture needs than they did decades ago, and in terms of weight, logistics, material use, Ikea are quite efficient.
- helmholtz 6y ago
  The complication is EXACTLY why we need to be even more in panic and hair-on-fire about environmental issues. A colleague did some analyses for the life cycle emissions of refrigerants. The complexity in the process was absurd, and basically intractable without simplifications. How much indirect CO2 emissions are caused by an inefficient compressor? How much does it depend on how you generate electricity? Which country were the gaskets manufactured in? What was the process used to extract the rare earths? Everything depends on everything else and consequences are pretty unknown.
  - afarrell 6y ago
    > even more in panic and hair-on-fire about environmental issues Panic is rarely useful. It might lead you to move at high and low velocity.
    - afarrell 6y ago
      that should be: high speed and low velocity.
  - fastball 6y ago
    Hence why the real solution has always been: 1. Electrify everything possible 2. Shift all electricity production to renewables, massively increase power output with nuclear nuclear nuclear. 3. Carbon capture.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      Ooh and stop mining Bitcoin
      - loceng 6y ago
        But how else will people make money than in a global, decentralized pyramid/MLM scheme?
        WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
        s/make/lose/ But I see your point. We should make a pyramid/MLM scheme where you're promised rewards for planting trees, segregating waste, cleaning up in any potential wildlife habitats, and reducing/reusing stuff in general.
      - fastball 6y ago
        Actually, as part of "Electrify everything", it would probably be good to replace a significant chunk of the banking system with a cryptocurrency layer (maybe bitcoin, maybe not). With green energy, digital gold is a lot more green than physical gold. Bitcoin is like electric cars – not super green right in this moment when the grid is still dirty, but all it takes to make it greener is to green up the grid. Meanwhile the classical banking system: uses all forms of transport which green up slower (armored cars, planes, etc), requires crazy amounts of construction (I don't even want to guess how much cement has been used in the construction of physical banks all over the world), all those buildings use energy for AC/lighting/etc, require huge amounts of manpower to manage trust in the system (people definitely aren't green), and also need their own datacenters anyway. And I'm sure I'm forgetting some things, where as with BTC pretty much all consumption is baked into mining, which again just gets greener automatically as the grid gets greener. Nobody is running a Bitcoin mining operation off of diesel generators. If you did the math (impractical given the breadth of the existing banking system), I think you'd find Bitcoin is already far greener than the existing banking system, by a huge margin. And cryptos like Ethereum have the potential to 10x/100x/1000x that with things like PoS vs. PoW as well as the fact that Ethereum smart contracts can not only replace banking but probably other industries as well, such as title companies and various other middlemen.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  The biggest problem is that furniture, instead of a class of objects with longevity and functionality has now become a fashion article, and IKEA is a large factor in that shift.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    I buy utility furniture at the thrift store. When I'm done with it, it goes back to the thrift store :-)
    - dagw 6y ago
      it goes back to the thrift store Last time I moved I found that thrift stores are very picky about what furniture they accept.
      - 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
        Take care of your furniture or give it away to those in need?
        dagw 6y ago
        give it away to those in need? Tried that as well. They took a dining table with a few scratches in it, but no charity I talked to wanted bookshelves or TV stands/media benches.
      - WalterBright 6y ago
        If I get it from the thrift store, it surely meets their criteria for donations. I'm a bit picky on what I select, too. For example, no upholstered stuff, because of possible bedbugs.
  - maccard 6y ago
    Not to beat the snowflake millenial drum too hard, but my parents moved from the house they've owned since they were younger than me. They have furniture like bookcases, beds, couches, tables, much of which they offered to me. But I live in a 2 bedroom apartment that is less than 1/3 of the size of their house, so it just doesn't fit. As an example, their dining room table is wider than my living room! I can't take any of that furniture from our family home into my current home whether I want to or not, and even as a dual income household, with one working in tech, we can't afford to buy a house that would fit even half of their furniture.
- bombcar 6y ago
  There's a world of difference between Ikea particleboard crap and heirloom furniture - you can make quite useful and durable furniture from pine board; Ikea actually does (though they could stand to spend some time on the design, the IVAR system is BY FAR the worst storage related problem I've ever dealt with; tossed that into the fire and got Uline wire shelves instead). Moving the lifecycle of a piece of furniture from 3-5 years closer to 20 is highly worth it; even if I no longer need it I prefer to leave it on the curb for someone else than have to shove it into the trash can. And these metal shelves will last longer than I will - and can move to the garage if I no longer need them.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
    I like Ivar ...
renewiltord 6y ago
Doesn't seem that bad to make forests, then cut them down, mix them together with stuff that makes them non-compostable and then just jamming it in the ground. Some local pollution, but you ultimately are sequestering the carbon, so all is well.
- loceng 6y ago
  Is there a silent /sarcasm tag at the end of this comment?
  - the_other 6y ago
    It doesn’t read as sarcasm to me. The bulk of the ideas seem “in the right direction”, just with a bunch of gaps and uncertainty. The gaps and uncertainty are where research and conversation live. I read the comment in that spirit.
  - refurb 6y ago
    It's carbon capture isn't it? Use fast growing wood, make furniture by gluing flakes together. If it gets tossed, it just sits underground.
    - jononor 6y ago
      Need to make sure it does not rot (releases methane), or get burned. And that the environmental cost of transportation does not outweigh the benefit. But otherwise it is a potential mechanism, I guess.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Assuming it does stay underground, instead of rotting away in a landfill. GGP said "non-compostable", but I presume they meant "not suitable for composting", and not "physically unable to decay".
- laurent92 6y ago
  In 3 millenias: « Woah! Free chopped wood for our furnaces, from just a dozen feet underground! » — Wait, exactly what we did.
mytailorisrich 6y ago
A lot of their furniture is made of materials like chipboard, which is made with waste byproducts and low quality leftovers. This certainly can be more efficient and environment-friendly than using prime slow-growth oak (for example).
baxtr 6y ago
The resale value of my Ikea stuff was quite high. This doesn’t support your argument, at least for my region and IKEA.
- loceng 6y ago
  One factor missing from conversation is timescale.
- calvano915 6y ago
  Idea has levels of quality. But some must view it all as disposable and low quality because how else could they justify spending 3x or more at other furniture stores. Most shop at Ikea for affordability, style options, and a good return guarantee.
rightbyte 6y ago
My experience with Ikea furniture is that they last - even abusive children. It is not Ikea's fault furniture is thrown away really. Danish Design type of furniture is what breaks if you are not careful. I.e. slick nice looking chairs and what not.
FriedrichN 6y ago
I've been using a lot of IKEA furniture for many years, some new, some secondhand (sometimes I'm the third or fourth owner) and I must say they're quite durable unlike some of the new furniture I've bought over the year and had to throw away.
- tweetle_beetle 6y ago
  The annoying thing about IKEA furniture, and that from competitors, is that all it takes is for a tiny piece of particle board to be damaged internally for the whole item to be useless. Generally, while they are in one piece and not moved, they are fine. But trasnporting or disassembling this stuff is a risk. The tiny wooden pegs, plastic bits and agressive screws going straight into soft board can rip out chunks, snap off, etc. Good luck getting a replacement door, etc.
  - kuschku 6y ago
    You can just go to any IKEA and buy a replacement part? Every single part they've ever sold is available at the replacement desk in their stores (at least here in Germany). Even individual screws, legs, etc. When I broke a door and one of the hinges of a kitchen cabinet, I just went to IKEA and bought a replacement door (of the exact same type) and replacement hinge) and replaced them.
    - codebolt 6y ago
      You can also search for the serial number on eBay and typically find a compatible part.
    - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
      Not available in the US. The only thing they will do is either sell you spare small parts or issue a refund.
      - Pasorrijer 6y ago
        I find this odd, in Canada we can get all the replacement parts needed. Just may have to wait a bit but they have them.
ramraj07 6y ago
Citation needed that wood based products are bad for the environment compared to say plastic. The alternative to IKEA crap is injection molded crap, so perhaps this is the better of the two evils.
flarg 6y ago
Seasoned IKEA customer here. They have two types of products, one type is durable and the other is not and it's pretty easy to tell the difference from the price. Desks and bookcases are good examples of the former.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Symbiote 6y ago
  They also have disposable desks and bookcases. Look for furniture that will withstand someone leaning or sitting on it. The cheap designs are held together with cam-lock nuts and bolts or screws, and it's inevitable that at some point someone will lean on the desk and pull the screws through the particle board. Furniture that will last longer has multiple fixings to keep it square, or diagonal cross-pieces (or a flat sheet). This is going to last much longer: ..._____________ ..._______•__•_| \\ | | \\ | | \\ | | \\| | \| | | | Than this: ..._____________ ..._________•__| | | | | | | | | | | | |
FooBarWidget 6y ago
Disposable? I've never had to throw away any IKEA furniture. These things can easily last 15 years.
- vianneychevalie 6y ago
  15 years? My table is 90. My grandparents bought it used when they first moved together after their wedding. Hardwood and a bit of care once in a while (2-3 years, waxing) goes a long way.
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    Survivorship bias. Most furniture from 30+ years ago is broken. The older it gets, the more likely it is to have been broken. For your grandparents (and the folks they passed it on to), it means: You were able to have space for the table all the years, and didn't move into a place where it didn't fit. It means it didn't have accidents. Do you have chairs that came with it - or did they break too (very common)? If you do have the chairs, are they sturdy enough for a child to climb on and wiggle in? (many aren't). It means they didn't have a fire or break the table when moving it (if they moved over the years). It means they could wax it and so could everyone else. It means they could do repairs when needed. It means that it didn't rot despite waxing. It means that you (and/or other family members) also had a space for it: If you bought an old piece used, it meant that there was an avenue to sell it. And a bunch of things like that. 90 year old furniture isn't the norm, and can hardly be used to verify that older things are made better (and besides, they had some cheap stuff too).
biztos 6y ago
Not to pile on to the anecdata here, but I've owned a lot of different Ikea furniture over the years, and in the words of (I think) Douglas Coupland it's "semi-disposable." Much of it will last a lifetime as long as you never disassemble it or move it further than the next room. Some of it is more fragile than that. Very rarely something is more durable -- here's looking at you, Klippan!
mystcb 6y ago
From a different point of view, I would say that I don't see their furniture as "designed to be disposable", more that there is good marked for re-use through other people. Spotted a few comments from people saying they have had second hand items (3rd, 4th etc) - and I think that in my head is where my version of "disposable" has come from. When I no longer want an Ikea product because it doesn't fit, or no longer needed - I will sell it online, and get a new one - for me I have "disposed of it" but actually its been "recycled" to someone that really wants it. Anecdotally - I have never thrown away any IKEA furniture due to old age or defects. It's always been passed on, or I have received a new one. - Admittedly this is just my POV, and I fully understand people have their own experiences - but I would like to think that in some small part, I am helping with that sustainable process. IKEA in this case, I am glad that they are at least trying to do something (again not saying other companies don't but we are in a thread about IKEA's recent work!) - and I would like to think that to round of the ring of sustainability that it isn't just the companies that need to input, its the people that use it too. Maybe I am being too idealistic, but I will do what I can in my small little bubble to be part of that sustainable process! I realise I got this far and didn't think about the point I was trying to make! - But yeah, from my perspective I don't feel like IKEA design it to be disposable, but I am sure other people have other experiences too :)
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  When people say "designed to be disposable" they don't mean reuse is not possible - just not likely, because a thing wears out quickly, or is a hassle to give someone else. Former means there's not much of a second-hand market, the latter means that even giving away for free is too much work compared to just dumping it. I'm very much surprised about the amount of comments here on HN (today and in many previous discussions) that claim to reuse IKEA furniture; it's completely contrary to my experience. My opinion of IKEA furniture is that it's single-assembly - trying to break it apart irreparably destroys it. I conclude there must be either high variance in IKEA's production quality, or we're comparing apples to oranges. Maybe some IKEA products have more reassembly potential than others. Someone mentioned an office chair elsewhere in the thread - yeah, that obviously can last years and be moved, because it's made of metal and hard plastics. But most IKEA furniture I experienced is made of dried toilet paper glued with formaldehyde^W^W^W^W^W^Wmedium-density fibreboard and assembles destructively.
randomsearch 6y ago
I’ve been using my disposable desk for 10 years now, and my disposable shelves for even longer than that. Not sure I’ve ever thrown away IKEA furniture, though I have sold some and given other items away.
dkdbejwi383 6y ago
I wish this was extended to many other products. Automobiles for example, should incorporate the costs associated with poisoning our air (including EVs as rubber tyres shed microparticles). A bottle of coke should incorporate the cost of fishing the plastic out of the ocean.
- ehnto 6y ago
  Tires and brakes are both emitters, admittedly with motor braking you probably emit less total brake dust in an EV in a comparatively heavy ICE car. Also still included in an EV is the carbon cost of mining, refining and manufacturing: - Metal parts - Plastic parts - Organic fabric parts (raising cattle, big cost. Pleather? Still costly, and now it's plastic too, can't win) - Battery minerals and production - Electronics manufacturing - Glass manufacturing I am still all for EVs mind you, hell yes. But they are a massively consumptive item.
beowulfey 6y ago
If you compare Ikea furniture to the comparable items you get from Target or Walmart, Ikea is hands down far better quality. Sure it might not last generations, but it is affordable and built from basically sawdust so I have to imagine their 1% usage comes from simply the scale of their production rather than inefficiency or anything like that.
felipelemos 6y ago
> I'd like to be wrong, though until we require companies to be responsible for all costs associated with the full lifecycle of a product so externalized costs are incorporated, we're not going to develop the most sustainable practices. Why only the companies should be responsible? I would say it's fairer to share the "blame" with everyone else. The consumers, the government, the whole society.
jonfw 6y ago
who are the next largest furniture manufacturers, and how does Ikea's durability/sustainability match up with them? Ikea doesn't compete with hardwood furniture... They compete with Wayfair, target, and Walmart furniture. Ikea builds a significantly better product with the same materials IMO.

namdnay 6y ago

I guess the argument would go that we would be better off building small quantities of long-lasting re-usable furniture, rather than building and throwing away lots of new cheaper furniture The low prices at Ikea and others definitely encourage over-consumption - buying a new table instead of restoring an old one for example Personally I don't necessarily subscribe to this argument, I think that we can focus on bigger sources of pollution/waste than transporting flatpack lumber, but I can see the argument

ClumsyPilot 6y ago
Buying new stuff in the west is now cheaper than repairing old items - this is a combination of outsourcing production, loosing skills, and deliberate efforts by compabies like Apple and Sonor to make their equipment unrepairable. https://youtu.be/Npd_xDuNi9k https://youtu.be/Npd_xDuNi9k
- xyzzy123 6y ago
  Also cost of human labour vs automation. Manufacturing is done by machines but maintenance and repair are generally carried out by humans. Agree that hostile design or just lack of attention are also huge issues.
- the_other 6y ago
  Is it “cheaper” environmentally?
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    Possibly. If you want to fix furniture, you need space and tools, so you need bigger houses (or the ability to move the furniture to a community spot) and tools. Tools will generally be made of metal, and needs factories to make these tools. Some of the parts are available freely: I'm guessing not all are. Manufacturing will need to be different as well if your pieces aren't designed to be repaired in such a way: Who knows if this would be more environmentally friendly. Not to mention that it is a skill, so a repair might not even repair it but break it further - but now we've made the tools and things on top of the furniture (that didn't even use up scraps of wood, but caused them).

mstokholm 6y ago

Well, just because they're producing something useful doesn't mean they can't give back at the same time! Small changes add up.

andretti1977 6y ago
Exactly. I don't know if Ikea has an ethical way of producing its goods, anyhow if they do something useful, it doesn't hurt. I won't say Ikea is a benefactor company because they preserved that land, but it certainly won't bother me!

Melting_Harps 6y ago

> This smells like some really bold and really ridiculous PR attempt. Of course it is, they just use illegal loggers in Romania to offset their actual need for the crappy disposable stuff they produce. They seem to get away with that no problem, despite EU restrictions on it. I've never seen the appeal of IKEA when it came to furniture, the long lines at some of the bigger ones I've been to (for breakfast) are baffling and you'd think they were giving the stuff away given how long some people would wait to get in. It all looks and feels so cheap, it looks like what they use when staging a home for sale or what a cheap studio set looks like for a 1 shot scene in a movie. IKEA had to settle so many wrongful infant deaths in the US, something that arguably could have been prevented by the parents, but it doesn't undo the fact that it comes down to a sub-standard QC/QA practices and literately no engineering in their design team. But, IKEA (now a Dutch company not Swedish despite its branding) is the China of furniture and focuses on that business model: cheap, disposable items that are profitable only at immense scale. > Well, just because they're producing something useful doesn't mean they can't give back at the same time! Small changes add up. Ha, useful... I'm guessing you've never lived near a University. the amount of IKEA crap that shows up in the dumpsters near off campus apartments at the end of the term is enough to make you forget about the word 'useful' when describing IKEA ever again. I've spent most of my time near Universities in the US, and its always the same crap littering the area after finals. The cheap plywood gets warped if it snows outside so most of its damaged beyond repair for even 2nd hand use. I wanted some night stands to use as in the garage for my tools once when I was in HS and was willing to do some repair work, but after dragging the thing a block it literately fell apart and the plywood had disintegrated and warped beyond use.

jacquesm 6y ago
IKEA is just as dutch as the Rolling Stones.
- oblio 6y ago
  Well, it is Dutch. Just saying it isn't doesn't change anything. They're registered in the Netherlands and operate in accordance with Dutch laws.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

There are some serious allegations that Ikea sources illegally harvested wood and convinces regulatora to look the other way https://fsc-watch.com/2020/07/02/ikeas-ukrainian-illegal-timber-problem-that-fsc-didnt-notice/ https://fsc-watch.com/2020/07/02/ikeas-ukrainian-illegal-tim...

oblio 6y ago
He he: http://skyddaskogen.se/en/news/4852-ikea-s-forest-in-romania-could-be-stolen http://skyddaskogen.se/en/news/4852-ikea-s-forest-in-romania... They've had these issues for at least 5 years, I remember reading about it back in 2015.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

j1elo 6y ago

I guess this has started, indeed. In Spain, one of the Twitter trending topics is a promoted Ikea hashtag loosely translated to "unknowingly being an activist"... so I'm assuming it refers to this movement

collyw 6y ago

It does smell like a PR attempt. But if a PR attempt is what it takes do something better than what came before I don't mind.

pelasaco 6y ago

When I read it, I read it like "IKEA Buys 11,000 Acres of U.S. Forest to Keep It From Being Developed for now"

KorematsuFred 6y ago

> Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. Why they have to explain themselves for doing something useful? What should they use to produce furniture? Would plastic be any better? Iron? Stone? Unfortunately we live in a world where virtue signaling is more important than actual virtues and winning arguments is more important than actual winning. Yes this is a PR thing and will help to create a positive public image that IKEA hopes will help them thwart the evil eyes of the rent seeking politicians. Note: A tree is useful and carbon negative only if it is growing a tree in forest that has stopped growing is mostly useless for offsetting carbon, if anything we need a Logging 2.0 where we cut down a lot of trees and use them for long term purposes such as furniture, housing, infrastructure etc. and plant and grow new trees. > Why they have to explain themselves for doing something useful? They don't have to and neither does Amazon, Google, Exxon and thousand other companies have to explain anything to the public or govermint and yet you see so many attempts by government and activists to force them to explain.

Jochim 6y ago
There appears to be two camps of people in this debate. Those who expect corporations to behave according to the ethics and morals of society and those who believe corporations should attempt to extract as much profit as possible. To those in the second camp I'd ask, why shouldn't society seek to place limits on corporate behaviour when it believes that behaviour is harmful to the long term goals of society? Why should the profit motive be put before social need? Without social and governmental intervention we'd still have cigarette companies paying doctors to promote their products as safe and healthy. We'd still be experiencing crime waves brought on by leaded gasoline and fireproofing would still be made from asbestos. Should the government and activists have allowed these things to continue? If not, what differentiates them from expecting Ikea to responsibly manage it's consumption of lumber?
hibbelig 6y ago
> _Note: A tree is useful and carbon negative only if it is growing a tree in forest that has stopped growing is mostly useless for offsetting carbon,_ Don't trees grow till they die?

macspoofing 6y ago

>Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. Exactly, IKEA *processes* one percent of commercial wood supply to build furniture for people. People who want furniture from IKEA use one percent of commercial wood supply. People want furniture made out of wood. Same logic applies to oil companies who extract oil and WE use it to drive cars, take buses, use plastics, build roads etc.

paganel 6y ago

Not throwing furniture away every few years will seriously help solve the problem. Of course, that would mean fewer sales for companies like IKEA.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
They already think the Western world has reached peak stuff: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/weve-hit-peak-home-furnishings-says-ikea-boss-consumerism https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/weve-hit-pe...
- paganel 6y ago
  Of course they would say that. And even if that were true, their prospective sales don't depend on the "Western" world only, not to say anything about the fact that equating "the Western world does not buy stuff anymore" with "the world doesn't buy stuff anymore" is peak orientalist (but this being standard corporate communication it does not surprise me).

shafyy 6y ago

> Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. The problem is that, like with clothes, people THINK they need more and newer things all the time because Marketing tells them that they do. I read somewhere (can't find the link right now) that shit tons of clothes and other items are not laying around in warehouses not being sold (due to lockdown) and I don't see people walking around naked in the streets. So, before buying something, ask yourself: 1) Do I really need it? 2) Can I buy it used?

GekkePrutser 6y ago
Well the thing with furniture is that it fills up your place quickly. As apartments get smaller (most countries are in a housing crisis) that pretty much stops people buying furniture they don't need. I only ever buy furniture because I really have a need for it. Not because I think it's cool or anything.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Downsizing creates a market opening for cabinets, shelves, organizers and other things that let you utilize vertical space more efficiently.
- shafyy 6y ago
  That's great, but I assure you, a lot of people just throw out old furniture and buy new ones just because they feel like their old furniture is out of style.
minikites 6y ago
>The problem is that, like with clothes, people THINK they need more and newer things all the time because Marketing tells them that they do. This is a problem with capitalism, not IKEA or clothing.
- shafyy 6y ago
  Maybe, but companies do have choices and don't need to blindly maximize profit.

random_upvoter 6y ago

The thing with IKEA is that most of their furniture looks good at first sight, but when it's been in your living room for a couple of years you tend to become very aware of the somewhat generic blandness of the design, the cheapness of the material and that micro-tuned "just good enough" build quality to the point that it begins to irk. You don't love a piece of IKEA and it is not something you're going to hand to your children when that time comes. I'm quite sure almost all IKEA furniture ends up in landfill within 30 years, so all pretense at durability seems misguided to me. Also people say IKEA is cheap but IMO it's actually rather expensive for what you're getting. Walk into an auction room and see what you can get for that 200 euro.

znpy 6y ago

We'll see how that goes, but if they pursue some kind of vertical integration where they can make their own wood in a sustainable way... that'd be pretty sweet imho. OTOH, it was recently announced that in order to promote sustainability, IKEA is going to sell spare parts too. That's pretty good imho. And keep in mind that we're talking about wood, something that's fairly recyclable, all things considered: imagine if apple started doing the same with iphone and macbook pro parts (that is selling spares directly to consumers)

gigatexal 6y ago

I thought it might be a tax harvesting plan. Dunno. Last I looked into Ikea I thought their whole corporate structure was odd: the stores are part of a non-profit holding company that licenses the brand and furniture as art or something to that affect. Seems dodgy.

alacombe 6y ago
Of course, everybody is doing that.

Closi 6y ago

17.8 million cubic yards is such a crazy unit of measure. If we convert that into acres we get... c11k Acres. So they have bought and protected roughly what they will use across the next year, effectively like an offset.

alacombe 6y ago
Only if they do that every year.

jwr 6y ago

Well, in terms of carbon in the atmosphere, making furniture from wood actually makes a lot of sense, assuming you use sustainable forestry (replant the same amount or more). That carbon in your furniture isn't going into the air anytime soon, hopefully never.

vbezhenar 6y ago
I run some numbers in the past and I think that going all-in to wood houses and stuff really makes lots of sense. It's not a solution to all CO2 problems, but having lots of wood in the forests AND lots of wood in people houses allows to keep a sizeable chunk of carbon from atmosphere. It's a shame that wood is not as popular nowadays. Of course people should regrow two trees for every one cut.
jojobas 6y ago
Wood rots in landfills. You have to char it to stop that.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  Googling studies indicates that the vast vast majority of carbon (97%) does not get released but simply stays in landfills.

gregoriol 6y ago

IKEA uses wood? really? I thought they used shitty agglomerates and other mixes in their furniture, maybe all the wood is for something else?

smileybarry 6y ago
They have some full wood products, some of their pricier desks, dining tables and kitchen countertops are full wood. Maybe all those thin wood covers on everything else add up, too.
- agloeregrets 6y ago
  Yup, many full wood items. One of their cheapest dressers is pure pine. The Poang is just laminated wood.

surfsvammel 6y ago

Isn’t it a sad world we live in when our gut feeling always is that “this smells like a PR trick”. I’m not saying it isn’t, just that it’s sad that we have built a world where we don’t trust our companies motivations.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
HN is particularly cynical though, the top post on nearly every article is negative.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

>"Ikea uses about one percent—yes, one percent—of the world's entire commercial wood supply. That amounts to about 17.8 million cubic yards of lumber last year. Yeah, seems a little over the top to me too. Ikea makes particle board furniture. Particle board is basically glue plus waste products from all the other things that use wood. You might as well complain that the dog food and fertilizer industries uses some % of the world's meat.

hyperbovine 6y ago

Fun fact, wood is a renewable resource that sequesters carbon.

ashtonkem 6y ago

They’re also making more of it because it doesn’t last anywhere near as long as it used to. A chest of drawers made out of oak or good plywood (yes, plywood can be good) used to last a literal lifetime. It also costs a lot more.