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I have a problem with IKEA. Aren't those peaces of furniture made of composite materials and those not so sturdy shelves a sustainability problem when compared

I have a problem with IKEA. Aren't those peaces of furniture made of composite materials and those not so sturdy shelves a sustainability problem when compared to traditional furniture making which is mostly wood glue a protective coat which lasts for hundreds of years can be infinitely repaired in a workshop with some basic tools. And then it it all ends it can became firewood, which ikea furniture can't. Shouldn't they start fixing the world there?

namdnay 6y ago
There seems to be a misconception that Ikea is all cheap composite. It's really not true, they cover a wide range, and they have full-wood models for nearly all product categories Obviously most people buy the cheap stuff, but that's the case of any low/medium end furniture chain really
- ornornor 6y ago
  They have pieces that aren’t particle board. These pieces are the lowest quality pine they could find. It’s super soft so it’s very easy to put a dent in and it’s not particularly well protected either so you end up throwing it away after a while as well. Maybe not as soon as the particle board junk but not much later either. Ikea used to be well made and decent quality 20 years ago. It all went downhill from there and now most of their furniture gets damaged by just looking at it.
  - bombcar 6y ago
    It's literally glued together "scrap" wood - which can work fine - but it is also susceptible to "drying" damage - I have a Hermes shelf that is more like a U than a _ now.
- adrian_b 6y ago
  Yes, indeed, Ikea furniture covers a wide range. For example, my most recent purchase from Ikea was one year ago, when I bought a couple of tables made of steel, on which I keep some E-ATX computer cases. Those steel tables look like they should last more than a human lifetime.
KaiserPro 6y ago
I have lots of Ikea furniture, I also have some "real" In terms of longevity, I don't see that much of a difference. They both require basic care and maintenance to keep in one piece. People throw away furniture, regardless of who/how its made. Thats the issue we need to tackle.
- bombcar 6y ago
  A thing I've noticed is that even if built from real wood most chairs are NOT designed to hold the average American - who has grown in leaps and bounds since the 1800s - and once they start to loosen at the joints there's no real saving them.
bayindirh 6y ago
> Aren't those peaces of furniture made of composite materials and those not so sturdy shelves. I'd gladly invite to my study, which is decorated using IKEA Galant (office) furniture. Every item in the set is high density wood composite and tables are built upon steel structures. They would outlast my children easily if they're not abused on purpose. Or my Kitchen, which is again built by IKEA with high density composite and its workmanship made a good carpenter jealous. If you want top of the line items in a category, look for "Stockholm" series.
- bombcar 6y ago
  "If not abused on purpose" is the problem - things DO get abused and once engineered wood products start to degrade there's no stopping it. And if water gets in and doesn't get removed immediately you're in for a world of excitement. Given that kitchens are remodeled every 7-10 years "on average" paying for solid wood/plywood might not be worth it. But there's a reason commercial kitchens are stainless steel.
  - bayindirh 6y ago
    Galant is not "engineered" per se. It's so dense that you can drive screws to anywhere on it. It behaves like drywall. > And if water gets in and doesn't get removed immediately you're in for a world of excitement. On higher end IKEA furniture there's no hex structure inside. It's filled. Solid. There's no inside. My kitchen is 8 years old and it has a solid wood counter. I re-oil it occasionally but, there's no degradation whatsoever. It's guaranteed for 25 years so, it's not something flimsy. Again panels and cabinets are not hollow. There's no inside of these cabinets.
    - bombcar 6y ago
      The "inside" refers to the material between the veneer layers - as you find with particle board or MDF: https://gharpedia.com/blog/particle-board-vs-mdf/ https://gharpedia.com/blog/particle-board-vs-mdf/ It sounds like Galant may be MDF which is more durable but still experiences expansion when wet. The countertop is solid wood to help prevent that type of damage - and as long as you maintain the plumbing it should last quite awhile.
Varriount 6y ago
I would say most pieces of furniture sold these days are made of engineered wood [0], if that's what you mean by "composite materials". Aside from easier sourcing, I presume that a big driver of it's use is the fact that it is easier to shape and produce - no having to figure out how it will be assembled using the various sizes of timber available. The actual solid-wood furniture I have seen is either quite expensive, or (somewhat ironically) unfinished. All this being said, if you do have the money to spare, spending a bit on quality or better labor practices is good. For example, I bought my bed frame from a company in the UK[1], and was quite happy with the finished product (despite some unfortunate luck with a part of the frame, which I put down to the fact that I ordered during the holidays). [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_wood https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_wood [1] https://www.getlaidbeds.com/ https://www.getlaidbeds.com/
- oblio 6y ago
  > The actual solid-wood furniture I have seen is either quite expensive, or (somewhat ironically) unfinished. It's also super heavy, which I personally hate. Annoying to move in, move out, move around.
  - Xylakant 6y ago
    I have inherited a piece of oak furniture and that was assembled at my grand-aunts flat in situ, with wood glue and moves as a single piece, doors, interior and all. It's about 2,50m wide and 2m high and feels like it weigh a ton. Takes three to four people to move. Every time I move, the folks come in, have a look at that beast and take a break. It's definitely more a piece for people that have settled in one place.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    Ikea sells lots of stuff made out of softer solid woods that is probably lighter than the engineered material versions.
  - vinay427 6y ago
    There are cheaper, lighter, and softer but less durable solid wood pieces made of pine and similar woods. They don't feel much heavier than the IKEA manufactured wood furniture I have but at least have a decently satisfying grain if that's what you're going for.
audunw 6y ago
I think making things in the way that minimises the impact at production time is the most important thing right now. Population growth is still a thing. Many people are buying furniture for the first time. If you start using hardwood for all furniture it could easily be devastating to the worlds forests. > And then it it all ends it can became firewood, which ikea furniture can't. Of course it can. You wouldn't burn it in a fireplace, but then fireplace is very inefficent way to burn things anyway. If you burn it in a trash burning facilities like they have in Sweden, you get the most energy out of it, you can heat local homes with waste heat in winter, and it creates less pollution (fire places are being banned in dense urban areas where I'm from). It's a fairly good solution for the seasonal energy demand in northern areas. I personally think IKEAs approach is realistically the most sustainable, but they could improve it by improving the recycling/reuse of the wood fibers in their products. I've used and refurbished old solid wood furniture myself. It's a luxury IMO. There's not that much of it to go around. It doesn't scale. It's not a solution to the worlds problem. I also think the quality issues of IKEA furniture is exaggerated. I have a cheap TV table I bought as a student 15 years ago. It has been moved around several times. Seen a lot of abuse. I didn't really have a use for it in our new home so I've used it as a tool table while renovating. It still looks fine. A tiny bit bent, but still good. Can probably give it to another student to use. If you want to say that buying long-lasting furniture is significantly better, I think you need to point to a study showing how many resources each approach uses, and the average life-span in the real-world. It's far from obvious that solid furniture is better.
CyanDeparture 6y ago
My ikea side tables were £4 each (called Lack I think, about 5 and a half usa dollars), I could not afford anything more expensive at the time. If you can get me two side tables made from solid wood that last for hundreds of years for less than £10 then I would 100% choose those over the Lacks. In fact at the time, I'd have gone up to £20 or £25 if I knew they were that good quality.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Some of their stuff is indeed composite - cardboard honeycomb structure with thin veneer on top. Others are more sturdy. Pretty much everything they sell will have a low impact on the environment when they reach end of life though. Anyway, stop buying their $5 tables and get something a bit more sturdy.
nashashmi 6y ago
Yeah, that cheap composite wood is use once and dump. It can’t even survive a move sometimes. But is it a sustainability problem? No. In fact if I can recycle wood destined for the furnace into engineered wood, it’s better. If I can recycle engineered wood to become engineered wood again, it’s better. The other benefit of real wood you mention (restoring and finish) happens less in the western world. Here they dump and move on. Sadly.
- jeffreyrogers 6y ago
  I've moved my Ikea bedframe at least 4 times now. Including once cross-country. Same with a desk and a couple of bookshelves. Seems to last long enough if you use it as intended.
gautamcgoel 6y ago
Why can't IKEA furniture be used as firewood?
- jfim 6y ago
  Particleboard is held together with glue, and the paint and glues probably aren't the best thing to breathe when they burn.

namdnay 6y ago

There seems to be a misconception that Ikea is all cheap composite. It's really not true, they cover a wide range, and they have full-wood models for nearly all product categories Obviously most people buy the cheap stuff, but that's the case of any low/medium end furniture chain really

ornornor 6y ago
They have pieces that aren’t particle board. These pieces are the lowest quality pine they could find. It’s super soft so it’s very easy to put a dent in and it’s not particularly well protected either so you end up throwing it away after a while as well. Maybe not as soon as the particle board junk but not much later either. Ikea used to be well made and decent quality 20 years ago. It all went downhill from there and now most of their furniture gets damaged by just looking at it.
- bombcar 6y ago
  It's literally glued together "scrap" wood - which can work fine - but it is also susceptible to "drying" damage - I have a Hermes shelf that is more like a U than a _ now.
adrian_b 6y ago
Yes, indeed, Ikea furniture covers a wide range. For example, my most recent purchase from Ikea was one year ago, when I bought a couple of tables made of steel, on which I keep some E-ATX computer cases. Those steel tables look like they should last more than a human lifetime.

KaiserPro 6y ago

I have lots of Ikea furniture, I also have some "real" In terms of longevity, I don't see that much of a difference. They both require basic care and maintenance to keep in one piece. People throw away furniture, regardless of who/how its made. Thats the issue we need to tackle.

bombcar 6y ago
A thing I've noticed is that even if built from real wood most chairs are NOT designed to hold the average American - who has grown in leaps and bounds since the 1800s - and once they start to loosen at the joints there's no real saving them.

bayindirh 6y ago

> Aren't those peaces of furniture made of composite materials and those not so sturdy shelves. I'd gladly invite to my study, which is decorated using IKEA Galant (office) furniture. Every item in the set is high density wood composite and tables are built upon steel structures. They would outlast my children easily if they're not abused on purpose. Or my Kitchen, which is again built by IKEA with high density composite and its workmanship made a good carpenter jealous. If you want top of the line items in a category, look for "Stockholm" series.

bombcar 6y ago
"If not abused on purpose" is the problem - things DO get abused and once engineered wood products start to degrade there's no stopping it. And if water gets in and doesn't get removed immediately you're in for a world of excitement. Given that kitchens are remodeled every 7-10 years "on average" paying for solid wood/plywood might not be worth it. But there's a reason commercial kitchens are stainless steel.
- bayindirh 6y ago
  Galant is not "engineered" per se. It's so dense that you can drive screws to anywhere on it. It behaves like drywall. > And if water gets in and doesn't get removed immediately you're in for a world of excitement. On higher end IKEA furniture there's no hex structure inside. It's filled. Solid. There's no inside. My kitchen is 8 years old and it has a solid wood counter. I re-oil it occasionally but, there's no degradation whatsoever. It's guaranteed for 25 years so, it's not something flimsy. Again panels and cabinets are not hollow. There's no inside of these cabinets.
  - bombcar 6y ago
    The "inside" refers to the material between the veneer layers - as you find with particle board or MDF: https://gharpedia.com/blog/particle-board-vs-mdf/ https://gharpedia.com/blog/particle-board-vs-mdf/ It sounds like Galant may be MDF which is more durable but still experiences expansion when wet. The countertop is solid wood to help prevent that type of damage - and as long as you maintain the plumbing it should last quite awhile.

Varriount 6y ago

I would say most pieces of furniture sold these days are made of engineered wood [0], if that's what you mean by "composite materials". Aside from easier sourcing, I presume that a big driver of it's use is the fact that it is easier to shape and produce - no having to figure out how it will be assembled using the various sizes of timber available. The actual solid-wood furniture I have seen is either quite expensive, or (somewhat ironically) unfinished. All this being said, if you do have the money to spare, spending a bit on quality or better labor practices is good. For example, I bought my bed frame from a company in the UK[1], and was quite happy with the finished product (despite some unfortunate luck with a part of the frame, which I put down to the fact that I ordered during the holidays). [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_wood https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_wood [1] https://www.getlaidbeds.com/ https://www.getlaidbeds.com/

oblio 6y ago
> The actual solid-wood furniture I have seen is either quite expensive, or (somewhat ironically) unfinished. It's also super heavy, which I personally hate. Annoying to move in, move out, move around.
- Xylakant 6y ago
  I have inherited a piece of oak furniture and that was assembled at my grand-aunts flat in situ, with wood glue and moves as a single piece, doors, interior and all. It's about 2,50m wide and 2m high and feels like it weigh a ton. Takes three to four people to move. Every time I move, the folks come in, have a look at that beast and take a break. It's definitely more a piece for people that have settled in one place.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Ikea sells lots of stuff made out of softer solid woods that is probably lighter than the engineered material versions.
- vinay427 6y ago
  There are cheaper, lighter, and softer but less durable solid wood pieces made of pine and similar woods. They don't feel much heavier than the IKEA manufactured wood furniture I have but at least have a decently satisfying grain if that's what you're going for.

audunw 6y ago

I think making things in the way that minimises the impact at production time is the most important thing right now. Population growth is still a thing. Many people are buying furniture for the first time. If you start using hardwood for all furniture it could easily be devastating to the worlds forests. > And then it it all ends it can became firewood, which ikea furniture can't. Of course it can. You wouldn't burn it in a fireplace, but then fireplace is very inefficent way to burn things anyway. If you burn it in a trash burning facilities like they have in Sweden, you get the most energy out of it, you can heat local homes with waste heat in winter, and it creates less pollution (fire places are being banned in dense urban areas where I'm from). It's a fairly good solution for the seasonal energy demand in northern areas. I personally think IKEAs approach is realistically the most sustainable, but they could improve it by improving the recycling/reuse of the wood fibers in their products. I've used and refurbished old solid wood furniture myself. It's a luxury IMO. There's not that much of it to go around. It doesn't scale. It's not a solution to the worlds problem. I also think the quality issues of IKEA furniture is exaggerated. I have a cheap TV table I bought as a student 15 years ago. It has been moved around several times. Seen a lot of abuse. I didn't really have a use for it in our new home so I've used it as a tool table while renovating. It still looks fine. A tiny bit bent, but still good. Can probably give it to another student to use. If you want to say that buying long-lasting furniture is significantly better, I think you need to point to a study showing how many resources each approach uses, and the average life-span in the real-world. It's far from obvious that solid furniture is better.

CyanDeparture 6y ago

My ikea side tables were £4 each (called Lack I think, about 5 and a half usa dollars), I could not afford anything more expensive at the time. If you can get me two side tables made from solid wood that last for hundreds of years for less than £10 then I would 100% choose those over the Lacks. In fact at the time, I'd have gone up to £20 or £25 if I knew they were that good quality.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

Some of their stuff is indeed composite - cardboard honeycomb structure with thin veneer on top. Others are more sturdy. Pretty much everything they sell will have a low impact on the environment when they reach end of life though. Anyway, stop buying their $5 tables and get something a bit more sturdy.

nashashmi 6y ago

Yeah, that cheap composite wood is use once and dump. It can’t even survive a move sometimes. But is it a sustainability problem? No. In fact if I can recycle wood destined for the furnace into engineered wood, it’s better. If I can recycle engineered wood to become engineered wood again, it’s better. The other benefit of real wood you mention (restoring and finish) happens less in the western world. Here they dump and move on. Sadly.

jeffreyrogers 6y ago
I've moved my Ikea bedframe at least 4 times now. Including once cross-country. Same with a desk and a couple of bookshelves. Seems to last long enough if you use it as intended.

gautamcgoel 6y ago

Why can't IKEA furniture be used as firewood?

jfim 6y ago
Particleboard is held together with glue, and the paint and glues probably aren't the best thing to breathe when they burn.