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>People who use dynamically-typed languages are finally realizing that having to simulate a type-checker mentally is a bad idea. I'd say that the pool of pytho

by konjin 6y ago

>People who use dynamically-typed languages are finally realizing that having to simulate a type-checker mentally is a bad idea. I'd say that the pool of python developers has been swamped by a tsunami of former java/c# developers who don't understand the first thing about what made python good and are demanding they get everything they were used to in their old languages in python. It's a rather sad state of affairs, but it's been great for cashing out on a language I learned in my off time at highschool in the 00s, especially since I have my name as a contributor before I turned 18.

oblio 6y ago
Or you could look at it as Python growing up and being used for long lived projects with tens and hundreds of developers of varying skill levels, where you need to do things such as... safely refactor large amounts of code quickly.
- konjin 6y ago
  Yes, I already said a tsunami of developers who do not know how to use python.
  - oblio 6y ago
    As opposed to the many Python gurus writing short scripts? :-)
    - konjin 6y ago
      Yes. Python is glue. If you build a stick bridge with just glue you sound like the type of person who ate most of it.
- pansa2 6y ago
  Maybe it’s “growing up”, but I agree that Python has definitely changed its focus. It has pivoted towards the handful of companies with “projects with tens and hundreds of developers“ at the expense of the millions(?) of people using it for much smaller projects. As part of the latter group, I don’t consider this change in focus to be a good thing.
  - konjin 6y ago
    Indeed, I've moved to Guile as my small scripting language. It has much better integration with the gnu user space, and much like pythons early days if you know C you can write extremely performant code. The fact that I can write a DSL for every problem is a benefit I didn't know I wanted until I no longer had to monkey patch objects.
    - pansa2 6y ago
      > I've moved to Guile as my small scripting language. I have been using Lua as an alternative to Python. It's much closer to my ideal level of language complexity - and I think overall it's better designed than Python, although it's certainly not perfect. The implementation of the interpreter is significantly better as well.
  - oblio 6y ago
    > It has pivoted towards the handful of companies with “projects with tens and hundreds of developers“ Handful of companies? Small and medium businesses, according to most definitions, can have up to 100 employees, and they generally make up to 90% of the businesses in most countries. If these small and medium businesses are writing Python apps, it's far from inconceivable that they will at some point have tens of people working on a project. You make it sounds like you need to be a company with 1 million employees in order to have a big project. And I don't see how these changes impact the "millions (?)" using Python for small projects. Python type checking is optional.

by konjin 6y ago

oblio 6y ago

Or you could look at it as Python growing up and being used for long lived projects with tens and hundreds of developers of varying skill levels, where you need to do things such as... safely refactor large amounts of code quickly.

konjin 6y ago
Yes, I already said a tsunami of developers who do not know how to use python.
- oblio 6y ago
  As opposed to the many Python gurus writing short scripts? :-)
  - konjin 6y ago
    Yes. Python is glue. If you build a stick bridge with just glue you sound like the type of person who ate most of it.
pansa2 6y ago
Maybe it’s “growing up”, but I agree that Python has definitely changed its focus. It has pivoted towards the handful of companies with “projects with tens and hundreds of developers“ at the expense of the millions(?) of people using it for much smaller projects. As part of the latter group, I don’t consider this change in focus to be a good thing.
- konjin 6y ago
  Indeed, I've moved to Guile as my small scripting language. It has much better integration with the gnu user space, and much like pythons early days if you know C you can write extremely performant code. The fact that I can write a DSL for every problem is a benefit I didn't know I wanted until I no longer had to monkey patch objects.
  - pansa2 6y ago
    > I've moved to Guile as my small scripting language. I have been using Lua as an alternative to Python. It's much closer to my ideal level of language complexity - and I think overall it's better designed than Python, although it's certainly not perfect. The implementation of the interpreter is significantly better as well.
- oblio 6y ago
  > It has pivoted towards the handful of companies with “projects with tens and hundreds of developers“ Handful of companies? Small and medium businesses, according to most definitions, can have up to 100 employees, and they generally make up to 90% of the businesses in most countries. If these small and medium businesses are writing Python apps, it's far from inconceivable that they will at some point have tens of people working on a project. You make it sounds like you need to be a company with 1 million employees in order to have a big project. And I don't see how these changes impact the "millions (?)" using Python for small projects. Python type checking is optional.