4 ms·

Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both mate

by JPKab 6y ago

Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. My nephew is autistic. He is my sister's youngest, and is 10 years younger than his sibling. This isn't a coincidence. Parents who have their children in their mid 30s and later are orders of magnitude more likely to have an autistic child than people who conceive in their 20s/early 30s. It's a massive increase in probability. I've found that the topic of delayed parenthood and the very real health impacts it results in are almost taboo amongst the media elites who have driven huge amounts of attention to autism due to so many of them having autistic kids. An additional topic related to this that goes undiscussed is the massive increase in twins (and consequentially premature births) caused by couples who had to use fertility drugs to conceive for the same reason. I want to emphasize that I'm not criticizing anyone for making the decision to delay having kids until they are older. I just wish it was discussed more because I personally think that corporate structures should be changed to not punish women for having kids. It's a horrible injustice that our most successful citizens are forced to suffer medical side-effects because corporations were designed for men, and sweeping discussion of these side-effects under the rug results in flawed approaches like Sandberg describes in "Lean In", where the solution is to just embrace the existing structure to a ridiculous degree. It's horrifying to me that work culture has impacted human culture to a point where we are forced to step in and correct for biology.

SubiculumCode 6y ago
Paternal (not maternal) age is highly correlated with ne novo mutations, a portion of which are associated with autism, depending on the location of the mutation. Perhaps this is less well known among news reporters, but among autism researchers, paternal age is often considered as an important factor, and is well accepted in that respect. Edit: I am a post-doc at the autism institute at which this research was conducted. While I am not associated with this research, Judy does solid, impactful research, and I know beyond a doubt that she is aware of the association between autism and de novo mutations in older fathers.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  And "Advanced Maternal Age" is extremely well known among mothers (in broad strokes if not technical details), who have generational experience with the issue. Of course gynecologists are also well aware. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/getting-pregnant/in-depth/pregnancy/art-20045756 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/getting-pregnan... It's a little bit disconcerting to see men pontificating about things they discovered that women already know quite well.
  - SubiculumCode 6y ago
    I don't understand the intention behind your final sentence, and to whom it referred. If directed at my post, all I can say is that in respect to autism, it is paternal age which is the most critical, per the science, which, by the way, isn't something I just learned, its related to my career.
    - throw998 6y ago
      disappears if you control for the fact that older men have children with older women
      - danielheath 6y ago
        Thank goodness there’s a throwaway here to make unsourced claims to argue with a postdoc in the field. Otherwise we might not get both sides of the story.
        SubiculumCode 6y ago
        I was a bit lazy about sources wasn't I also :) Here is a nice Spectrum article that covers it. https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/link-parental-age-autism-explained/ https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/link-parental-age-autism-e...
adaml_623 6y ago
Lots of discussions about the multiple birth thing. Medical research too. https://consumer.healthday.com/disabilities-information-11/cerebral-palsy-news-121/changes-in-ivf-may-have-spurred-drop-in-cerebral-palsy-study-says-759298.html https://consumer.healthday.com/disabilities-information-11/c... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/02/doctors-urge-end-to-ivf-postcode-lottery-to-reduce-multiple-births https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/02/doctors-urge...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
lc9er 6y ago
> Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. I thought this was common knowledge? I’ve certainly read this frequently and it’s something that is brought up (anecdotally) by OB/GYNs as women enter their 30’s. My wife and several family members ruefully will tell stories about how their doc let them know that they’ll be considered of “advanced maternal age” when they hit 35. They were then reminded of the increased risk of birth defects, autism, and complications.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Perhaps not common enough. For instance, both my wife and I knew about the ~35 point of "advanced maternal age" and that there are risks associated with late conception, but it's the first time I hear autism is one of these risks.
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    Same here.
- valarauko 6y ago
  >“advanced maternal age” when they hit 35 I'm old enough (ironically) that I was taught the term as "geriatric pregnancy"
0b01 6y ago
Autism is a slow life history spectrum disorder. You can read more about this theory in evopsych by looking up M Del Giudice papers.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. Thee's a strong link to paternal age that seems well established. Maternal age effects seem to be all over the map: I've seen weaker positive correlation with advancing maternal age than paternal age, no correlation with maternal age, and negative correlation with maternal age in different studies (possibly with varying degrees of controlling for other known contributors; e.g., apparently women with autism tend to have first children older, which by itself can create the impression of a maternal age effect of not controlled for.)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
scruple 6y ago
> An additional topic related to this that goes undiscussed is the massive increase in twins That's not just the realm of IVF. My wife and I have fraternal twins. She was 35 when we conceived. It turns out that as women approach menopause they may drop more than one egg during ovulation. This effect is noticed dramatically at age 35. I think I recall reading that your chances of a natural twins birth goes from < 1% to > 4% at age 35... And, of course, in addition to that, once you have your first multiples pregnancy the odds of any subsequent pregnancy being a multiples also goes up.

by JPKab 6y ago

SubiculumCode 6y ago

Paternal (not maternal) age is highly correlated with ne novo mutations, a portion of which are associated with autism, depending on the location of the mutation. Perhaps this is less well known among news reporters, but among autism researchers, paternal age is often considered as an important factor, and is well accepted in that respect. Edit: I am a post-doc at the autism institute at which this research was conducted. While I am not associated with this research, Judy does solid, impactful research, and I know beyond a doubt that she is aware of the association between autism and de novo mutations in older fathers.

alisonkisk 6y ago
And "Advanced Maternal Age" is extremely well known among mothers (in broad strokes if not technical details), who have generational experience with the issue. Of course gynecologists are also well aware. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/getting-pregnant/in-depth/pregnancy/art-20045756 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/getting-pregnan... It's a little bit disconcerting to see men pontificating about things they discovered that women already know quite well.
- SubiculumCode 6y ago
  I don't understand the intention behind your final sentence, and to whom it referred. If directed at my post, all I can say is that in respect to autism, it is paternal age which is the most critical, per the science, which, by the way, isn't something I just learned, its related to my career.
  - throw998 6y ago
    disappears if you control for the fact that older men have children with older women
    - danielheath 6y ago
      Thank goodness there’s a throwaway here to make unsourced claims to argue with a postdoc in the field. Otherwise we might not get both sides of the story.
      - SubiculumCode 6y ago
        I was a bit lazy about sources wasn't I also :) Here is a nice Spectrum article that covers it. https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/link-parental-age-autism-explained/ https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/link-parental-age-autism-e...

adaml_623 6y ago

Lots of discussions about the multiple birth thing. Medical research too. https://consumer.healthday.com/disabilities-information-11/cerebral-palsy-news-121/changes-in-ivf-may-have-spurred-drop-in-cerebral-palsy-study-says-759298.html https://consumer.healthday.com/disabilities-information-11/c... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/02/doctors-urge-end-to-ivf-postcode-lottery-to-reduce-multiple-births https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/02/doctors-urge...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

lc9er 6y ago

> Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. I thought this was common knowledge? I’ve certainly read this frequently and it’s something that is brought up (anecdotally) by OB/GYNs as women enter their 30’s. My wife and several family members ruefully will tell stories about how their doc let them know that they’ll be considered of “advanced maternal age” when they hit 35. They were then reminded of the increased risk of birth defects, autism, and complications.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
Perhaps not common enough. For instance, both my wife and I knew about the ~35 point of "advanced maternal age" and that there are risks associated with late conception, but it's the first time I hear autism is one of these risks.
- jtbayly 6y ago
  Same here.
valarauko 6y ago
>“advanced maternal age” when they hit 35 I'm old enough (ironically) that I was taught the term as "geriatric pregnancy"

0b01 6y ago

Autism is a slow life history spectrum disorder. You can read more about this theory in evopsych by looking up M Del Giudice papers.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. Thee's a strong link to paternal age that seems well established. Maternal age effects seem to be all over the map: I've seen weaker positive correlation with advancing maternal age than paternal age, no correlation with maternal age, and negative correlation with maternal age in different studies (possibly with varying degrees of controlling for other known contributors; e.g., apparently women with autism tend to have first children older, which by itself can create the impression of a maternal age effect of not controlled for.)

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

scruple 6y ago

> An additional topic related to this that goes undiscussed is the massive increase in twins That's not just the realm of IVF. My wife and I have fraternal twins. She was 35 when we conceived. It turns out that as women approach menopause they may drop more than one egg during ovulation. This effect is noticed dramatically at age 35. I think I recall reading that your chances of a natural twins birth goes from < 1% to > 4% at age 35... And, of course, in addition to that, once you have your first multiples pregnancy the odds of any subsequent pregnancy being a multiples also goes up.