13 ms·

I think most of the "ugly" gripes come from people who either don't know how to change the font or haven't bothered to turn the tool bar off.

jlongster 15y ago
That's true. I'm considering making a few screencasts that show how go from nothing to a full Emacs installation/customization on different platforms. I think that would be neat/fun.
- BrandonM 15y ago
  Please do. Bonus points if you include something about Vimpulse (http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/vimpulse.el http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/vimpulse.el) to entice vim users to give it a try.
  - jlongster 15y ago
    Cool, I haven't tried that library. I use the built-in vi-mode which does basic stuff. Please check back with http://jlongster.com/ http://jlongster.com/ in a few months, I have plans to start doing this kind of stuff there.
    - BrandonM 15y ago
      I've added it to my calendar. I'll ping you at the end of July if there's nothing there at that point :).
mixmax 15y ago
I'm not trying to be snarky here, but if you change the font and turn the toolbar off what's left of the design?
- dkarl 15y ago
  If only you could configure Eclipse until nothing was left of its design!
  - munificent 15y ago
    I've actually gotten Eclipse into a fairly clean state: http://i.imgur.com/ln2N8.png http://i.imgur.com/ln2N8.png Most of the clutter is gone, but all of the nice IDE features (refactoring, immediate error detection, etc.) are still there. It's a nice way to work.
    - bmj 15y ago
      I run VS2010 in a similar way, though it is much easier to strip off the widgets. Most of my co-workers don't understand how I can work that way. I tell them it's all about learning (or modifying) keybindings.
- technomancy 15y ago
  > what's left of the design? Exactly.
  - mixmax 15y ago
    Then you're talking more usability than design. In that regard emacs doesn't exactly rate well.
    - Goladus 15y ago
      Emacs is very usable if you can make a few reasonable assumptions about the user. Obviously it's not perfect (see the discussion of changing fonts in the originally posted blog) but making those assumptions about the user allows for a great deal of capability.
      - mixmax 15y ago
        I agree entirely, but capability and usability are unrelated concepts. I don't doubt for a moment that emacs is immensely capable, which is why it has a large following. Usability is, according to wikipedia "the ease of use and learnability of a human-made object" Ease of use and learnability isn't exactly emacs strong points. As an obvious example you need to learn emacs-lisp to unlock its potential. Capable: absolutely. Easy to use: definitely not.

jlongster 15y ago

That's true. I'm considering making a few screencasts that show how go from nothing to a full Emacs installation/customization on different platforms. I think that would be neat/fun.

BrandonM 15y ago
Please do. Bonus points if you include something about Vimpulse (http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/vimpulse.el http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/vimpulse.el) to entice vim users to give it a try.
- jlongster 15y ago
  Cool, I haven't tried that library. I use the built-in vi-mode which does basic stuff. Please check back with http://jlongster.com/ http://jlongster.com/ in a few months, I have plans to start doing this kind of stuff there.
  - BrandonM 15y ago
    I've added it to my calendar. I'll ping you at the end of July if there's nothing there at that point :).

mixmax 15y ago

I'm not trying to be snarky here, but if you change the font and turn the toolbar off what's left of the design?

dkarl 15y ago
If only you could configure Eclipse until nothing was left of its design!
- munificent 15y ago
  I've actually gotten Eclipse into a fairly clean state: http://i.imgur.com/ln2N8.png http://i.imgur.com/ln2N8.png Most of the clutter is gone, but all of the nice IDE features (refactoring, immediate error detection, etc.) are still there. It's a nice way to work.
  - bmj 15y ago
    I run VS2010 in a similar way, though it is much easier to strip off the widgets. Most of my co-workers don't understand how I can work that way. I tell them it's all about learning (or modifying) keybindings.
technomancy 15y ago
> what's left of the design? Exactly.
- mixmax 15y ago
  Then you're talking more usability than design. In that regard emacs doesn't exactly rate well.
  - Goladus 15y ago
    Emacs is very usable if you can make a few reasonable assumptions about the user. Obviously it's not perfect (see the discussion of changing fonts in the originally posted blog) but making those assumptions about the user allows for a great deal of capability.
    - mixmax 15y ago
      I agree entirely, but capability and usability are unrelated concepts. I don't doubt for a moment that emacs is immensely capable, which is why it has a large following. Usability is, according to wikipedia "the ease of use and learnability of a human-made object" Ease of use and learnability isn't exactly emacs strong points. As an obvious example you need to learn emacs-lisp to unlock its potential. Capable: absolutely. Easy to use: definitely not.