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Does System76 make a laptop with a high dpi screen? It seems that is table stakes these days...Seems like this is a pretty expensive laptop (portable desktop),

by lars-b2018 6y ago

Does System76 make a laptop with a high dpi screen? It seems that is table stakes these days...Seems like this is a pretty expensive laptop (portable desktop), but perhaps for gaming it's not a big deal. However, if you are programming or doing some other text intensive activity the low-dpi screens would be deal breaker.

sscarduzio 6y ago
THIS. Plenty of kinda nice Linux laptops out there, but with a terrible, terrible screen. For example, a MBP 13" has 2x resolution than this 15". This is a monumental deal breaker for the majority of people.
- ISL 6y ago
  Have a look at the Dell offerings. The Developer Edition of the XPS 13 is a linux-first example: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebooks/new-xps-13-developer-edition/spd/xps-13-9310-laptop/ctox139w10p2c3000u https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo... (This post made from an XPS-13 7390 with a standard-HD display. The standard display is quite pleasant to use. The keyboard is wonderful compared to my crouton Chromebook of the past. The fit, finish, and operation of the device is the nicest I've used.)
  - noja 6y ago
    Any coil whine?
    - ISL 6y ago
      I haven't noticed any particular noise from the unit. I'm in my late thirties, so if it is at the higher end of human hearing, perhaps those particular cilia are gone, but I'm happy. Placing my ear on the keyboard doesn't detect anything either. It has been the better part of a decade since I've had a laptop with a fan, so that is a little bit different, but I only notice it under higher loads.
    - julianlam 6y ago
      Yes, it exists. However it is my daily driver and I've all but tuned it out months ago. It's really not as big a deal some make it out to be.
  - sscarduzio 6y ago
    Oh that's funny, I have the same laptop with you! $ neofetch --off sscarduzio@nash --------------- OS: Ubuntu 20.10 x86_64 Host: XPS 13 7390 2-in-1 Kernel: 5.8.0-40-generic Uptime: 3 days, 10 hours, 34 mins Packages: 3506 (dpkg), 14 (flatpak), 27 (snap) Shell: bash 5.0.17 Resolution: 1920x1200 DE: GNOME WM: Mutter WM Theme: Yaru-dark Theme: Yaru-dark [GTK2/3] Icons: Yaru [GTK2/3] Terminal: gnome-terminal CPU: Intel i7-1065G7 (8) @ 3.900GHz GPU: Intel Iris Plus Graphics G7 Memory: 7620MiB / 15781MiB I use fractional scaling hidpi (1.3x) and no issues at all. But coming from a 2015 MBP 13" retina display, I can definitely tell the difference, and the MBP was much nicer to look at. I opted fro the FHD+ instead of the 4K screen in my Dell for two reasons: - 4K is *WAY* beyond Retina, which is already very dense for me. - I was afraid the 4K would drain the battery (especially on Linux) I really hope Dell will offer a sane ~3K display (i.e. Retina levels) in the future and remove the burden of choice for their customers (at least where it's not needed). Before you ask: no coil whine for me, but the thin rubber feet peeled off after exactly one year. This pissed me off on a £2K laptop.
- Scarbutt 6y ago
  Is there much difference when looking at text on an 13" screen between 1080p and 2160p ? assuming both are high quality screens.
  - sscarduzio 6y ago
    Yes there is! Because in the MBP 13" at 2160p I could keep 2x scaling, which is much better than this 1.3x/1.5x fractional scaling I have to keep in the Dell XPS 13".
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    Do you like smooth or blocky text?
  - derefr 6y ago
    Assuming you have good eyes, twice the DPI means you can have your text almost-but-not-quite twice as small without losing readability. Which is effectively the same as giving you almost-but-not-quite twice the screen real-estate.
- Teknoman117 6y ago
  I am typing this on a Dell XPS 15 w/ a 4K OLED running Gentoo . But more to your point, yes, there are few laptops with good screens that have awesome Linux compatibility. They exist, certainly, but there are not too many of them.
  - randmeerkat 6y ago
    I have to ask, what compelled you to use Gentoo as your daily driver? I haven’t touched Gentoo in many years, but it was not something I would ever consider as a desktop distribution based off that experience. Has something changed?
    - Teknoman117 6y ago
      To be honest, not really. Where I work we run Gentoo on all our servers because we have many changes across the Linux stack and deal with custom, internal hardware. We have build profiles for various system configurations that are entirely reproducible on a binary level. It made sense since we have many similar or identical systems globally and need access to the latest kernel versions. I installed it on all my personal systems to force myself to learn how to use it. I ran Arch on everything previously. Then I went and did something stupid - I fell in love with Gentoo's package management system. As someone who writes a lot of code on my own time as well, I found Gentoo's package manager (portage) to be the least headache inducing of all the ones I'd used (deb, rpm, PKGBUILD). This is my own subjective opinion obviously.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- holtalanm 6y ago
  > This is a monumental deal breaker for the majority of people. I highly doubt that a laptop not supporting >1080p on the monitor is considered a 'monumental deal breaker for the majority of people'. 1080p is just fine for laptops. the screen on the Serval WS is 144hz, as well, which is much higher refresh-rate than most HiDpi displays.
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    I write text documents for a living. 4k at 60hz is what I need and it works perfectly from Ubuntu Mate on a Dell laptop. I'd never go back to 1080.
    - holtalanm 6y ago
      i write code for a living, so I'm in a similar boat. all my screens are 1080p and I don't have any problems. my point was that this is actually not a deal breaker for most users. just a deal breaker for some users. I would venture to say they are even in the minority.
      - mixmastamyk 6y ago
        Right, we can do without a lot of nice features. For example, I could do without a modern editor, maybe get by with gedit or something similar. But I don't... the value I get from them is much greater than the money spent. My laptop display upgrade was maybe $200 five years ago. It has payed that back in clarity (and the amount of code I can see at once) every single day since.
podiki 6y ago
Agreed, would love a 4k screen. Currently have that on a Dell XPS running Linux and don't want to go back to 1080.
ekianjo 6y ago
When programming I personally connect my laptop to a larger monitor with better resolution. Not sure what is the point of 1440p or more on a 15 inch screen, because then you end up scaling everything 2x or more to be readable again.
- ihattendorf 6y ago
  Which results in crisper better defined text.
opencl 6y ago
The Bonobo WS is available with a 4K 17" screen.
killingtime74 6y ago
I wanted system76 but ended up with a xps17 for this reason
cbpowell 6y ago
As an owner of a HiDPI laptop, I'm here to tell you that if you want to connect it to an external monitor, you will be disappointed in Linux. For a laptop-monitor combination in Linux, standard resolution is absolutely the way to go. This isn't a rant. Mad, mad respect for Linux here, and longtime Linux user. KDE only offers a single scaling factor, so you must scale the laptop and the external screens identically. That means all at 2:1, or 1.5:1, or what have you -- this means one of your screens will be scaled improperly (too fine or too large). Gnome does the same, I believe. I have heard Pop_OS can scale monitors differently but didn't try it.
- cturtle 6y ago
  Why not change the resolution on the laptop? Both my laptop and monitor have the same screen resolution, but I have configured Cinnamon to set the laptop display to only 1920x1080 when the external monitor is attached so its more readable at a distance. When unplugging hdmi the laptop display switches back to full resolution automatically.
- izacus 6y ago
  Nope, GNOME actually supports mixed scaling with Wayland and works just fine on my Dell XPS 13. I regularly connect a normal DPI external monitor and things scale just fine across both HiDPI internal and normal DPI external screen.
- chrismorgan 6y ago
  My understanding (not based in any experience, though I hope to get some this year) is that this is a limitation of X11, but that Wayland properly supports per-screen scaling (so long as the compositor does).
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  Get them the same resolution. I have a Dell laptop with Ubuntu Mate and two 4k screens. It has been running wonderfully for at least five years. I'd never go back to 1080.
- commoner 6y ago
  The following Linux distributions support different scaling factors on different displays by default: Pop!_OS, Ubuntu (and GNOME-based derivatives), Linux Mint. Arch Linux, Manjaro, and all distributions using GNOME + Wayland can also enable mixed scaling with a quick setting change. Pop!_OS (developed by System76) created its own HiDPI daemon to handle HiDPI and LoDPI displays on X11 at the same time: https://github.com/pop-os/hidpi-daemon https://github.com/pop-os/hidpi-daemon https://blog.system76.com/post/174414833678/all-about-the-hidpi-daemon https://blog.system76.com/post/174414833678/all-about-the-hi... It is preinstalled on all System76 computers and enabled by default. Ubuntu's fork of the Mutter display manager (used by its fork of GNOME) includes a patch to handle different display resolutions for HiDPI and LoDPI displays on X11: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1820850 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/182085... Ubuntu and all of its GNOME-based derivatives include this patch, unless it is specifically excluded by the maintainers. Linux Mint implemented fractional display scaling, with different settings for each display, in Cinnamon 4.6: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3858 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3858 Arch Linux and Manjaro users can also choose Cinnamon as the desktop environment for the same features. If you are using a GNOME on X11 on Manjaro, you can install the mutter-x11-scaling package to replace Mutter with a version that includes Ubuntu's changes: https://gitlab.manjaro.org/packages/extra/mutter-x11-scaling/-/tree/master https://gitlab.manjaro.org/packages/extra/mutter-x11-scaling... https://github.com/puxplaying/mutter-x11-scaling https://github.com/puxplaying/mutter-x11-scaling Finally, if you are using GNOME on Wayland, mixed scaling is already supported. To enable fractional scaling, activate the "scale-monitor-framebuffer" setting: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HiDPI#GNOME https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HiDPI#GNOME On Wayland, scaled applications that do not use GTK 3+ or Qt 5+ may appear blurry. This affects all Electron applications. X11 does not have the same issue, but Wayland is generally smoother and more stable than X11.
commoner 6y ago
The Adder WS has a 4K OLED display, although it's temporarily sold out: https://system76.com/laptops/adder https://system76.com/laptops/adder The Bonobo WS has a 4K display option at a higher price point: https://system76.com/laptops/bonobo https://system76.com/laptops/bonobo
tenacious_tuna 6y ago
They do! I have a Galago Pro from 2017ish I got from System76. It's a 13" form factor with a 3200x1800 display, which I find quite detailed. I'll echo the frustrations of other folk in the thread when using the device with an external monitor; at the time, the DPI scaling was a mess between the internal display and the external 4k I used for programming. It has been a couple years since I've tried that setup, so it's possible it's improved since then. I will say I've enjoyed the roadmap System76 has had for PopOS, including their work on HiDPI quality-of-life improvements.

sscarduzio 6y ago

THIS. Plenty of kinda nice Linux laptops out there, but with a terrible, terrible screen. For example, a MBP 13" has 2x resolution than this 15". This is a monumental deal breaker for the majority of people.

ISL 6y ago
Have a look at the Dell offerings. The Developer Edition of the XPS 13 is a linux-first example: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebooks/new-xps-13-developer-edition/spd/xps-13-9310-laptop/ctox139w10p2c3000u https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo... (This post made from an XPS-13 7390 with a standard-HD display. The standard display is quite pleasant to use. The keyboard is wonderful compared to my crouton Chromebook of the past. The fit, finish, and operation of the device is the nicest I've used.)
- noja 6y ago
  Any coil whine?
  - ISL 6y ago
    I haven't noticed any particular noise from the unit. I'm in my late thirties, so if it is at the higher end of human hearing, perhaps those particular cilia are gone, but I'm happy. Placing my ear on the keyboard doesn't detect anything either. It has been the better part of a decade since I've had a laptop with a fan, so that is a little bit different, but I only notice it under higher loads.
  - julianlam 6y ago
    Yes, it exists. However it is my daily driver and I've all but tuned it out months ago. It's really not as big a deal some make it out to be.
- sscarduzio 6y ago
  Oh that's funny, I have the same laptop with you! $ neofetch --off sscarduzio@nash --------------- OS: Ubuntu 20.10 x86_64 Host: XPS 13 7390 2-in-1 Kernel: 5.8.0-40-generic Uptime: 3 days, 10 hours, 34 mins Packages: 3506 (dpkg), 14 (flatpak), 27 (snap) Shell: bash 5.0.17 Resolution: 1920x1200 DE: GNOME WM: Mutter WM Theme: Yaru-dark Theme: Yaru-dark [GTK2/3] Icons: Yaru [GTK2/3] Terminal: gnome-terminal CPU: Intel i7-1065G7 (8) @ 3.900GHz GPU: Intel Iris Plus Graphics G7 Memory: 7620MiB / 15781MiB I use fractional scaling hidpi (1.3x) and no issues at all. But coming from a 2015 MBP 13" retina display, I can definitely tell the difference, and the MBP was much nicer to look at. I opted fro the FHD+ instead of the 4K screen in my Dell for two reasons: - 4K is *WAY* beyond Retina, which is already very dense for me. - I was afraid the 4K would drain the battery (especially on Linux) I really hope Dell will offer a sane ~3K display (i.e. Retina levels) in the future and remove the burden of choice for their customers (at least where it's not needed). Before you ask: no coil whine for me, but the thin rubber feet peeled off after exactly one year. This pissed me off on a £2K laptop.
Scarbutt 6y ago
Is there much difference when looking at text on an 13" screen between 1080p and 2160p ? assuming both are high quality screens.
- sscarduzio 6y ago
  Yes there is! Because in the MBP 13" at 2160p I could keep 2x scaling, which is much better than this 1.3x/1.5x fractional scaling I have to keep in the Dell XPS 13".
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  Do you like smooth or blocky text?
- derefr 6y ago
  Assuming you have good eyes, twice the DPI means you can have your text almost-but-not-quite twice as small without losing readability. Which is effectively the same as giving you almost-but-not-quite twice the screen real-estate.
Teknoman117 6y ago
I am typing this on a Dell XPS 15 w/ a 4K OLED running Gentoo . But more to your point, yes, there are few laptops with good screens that have awesome Linux compatibility. They exist, certainly, but there are not too many of them.
- randmeerkat 6y ago
  I have to ask, what compelled you to use Gentoo as your daily driver? I haven’t touched Gentoo in many years, but it was not something I would ever consider as a desktop distribution based off that experience. Has something changed?
  - Teknoman117 6y ago
    To be honest, not really. Where I work we run Gentoo on all our servers because we have many changes across the Linux stack and deal with custom, internal hardware. We have build profiles for various system configurations that are entirely reproducible on a binary level. It made sense since we have many similar or identical systems globally and need access to the latest kernel versions. I installed it on all my personal systems to force myself to learn how to use it. I ran Arch on everything previously. Then I went and did something stupid - I fell in love with Gentoo's package management system. As someone who writes a lot of code on my own time as well, I found Gentoo's package manager (portage) to be the least headache inducing of all the ones I'd used (deb, rpm, PKGBUILD). This is my own subjective opinion obviously.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
holtalanm 6y ago
> This is a monumental deal breaker for the majority of people. I highly doubt that a laptop not supporting >1080p on the monitor is considered a 'monumental deal breaker for the majority of people'. 1080p is just fine for laptops. the screen on the Serval WS is 144hz, as well, which is much higher refresh-rate than most HiDpi displays.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  I write text documents for a living. 4k at 60hz is what I need and it works perfectly from Ubuntu Mate on a Dell laptop. I'd never go back to 1080.
  - holtalanm 6y ago
    i write code for a living, so I'm in a similar boat. all my screens are 1080p and I don't have any problems. my point was that this is actually not a deal breaker for most users. just a deal breaker for some users. I would venture to say they are even in the minority.
    - mixmastamyk 6y ago
      Right, we can do without a lot of nice features. For example, I could do without a modern editor, maybe get by with gedit or something similar. But I don't... the value I get from them is much greater than the money spent. My laptop display upgrade was maybe $200 five years ago. It has payed that back in clarity (and the amount of code I can see at once) every single day since.

podiki 6y ago

Agreed, would love a 4k screen. Currently have that on a Dell XPS running Linux and don't want to go back to 1080.

ekianjo 6y ago

When programming I personally connect my laptop to a larger monitor with better resolution. Not sure what is the point of 1440p or more on a 15 inch screen, because then you end up scaling everything 2x or more to be readable again.

ihattendorf 6y ago
Which results in crisper better defined text.

opencl 6y ago

The Bonobo WS is available with a 4K 17" screen.

killingtime74 6y ago

I wanted system76 but ended up with a xps17 for this reason

cbpowell 6y ago

As an owner of a HiDPI laptop, I'm here to tell you that if you want to connect it to an external monitor, you will be disappointed in Linux. For a laptop-monitor combination in Linux, standard resolution is absolutely the way to go. This isn't a rant. Mad, mad respect for Linux here, and longtime Linux user. KDE only offers a single scaling factor, so you must scale the laptop and the external screens identically. That means all at 2:1, or 1.5:1, or what have you -- this means one of your screens will be scaled improperly (too fine or too large). Gnome does the same, I believe. I have heard Pop_OS can scale monitors differently but didn't try it.

cturtle 6y ago
Why not change the resolution on the laptop? Both my laptop and monitor have the same screen resolution, but I have configured Cinnamon to set the laptop display to only 1920x1080 when the external monitor is attached so its more readable at a distance. When unplugging hdmi the laptop display switches back to full resolution automatically.
izacus 6y ago
Nope, GNOME actually supports mixed scaling with Wayland and works just fine on my Dell XPS 13. I regularly connect a normal DPI external monitor and things scale just fine across both HiDPI internal and normal DPI external screen.
chrismorgan 6y ago
My understanding (not based in any experience, though I hope to get some this year) is that this is a limitation of X11, but that Wayland properly supports per-screen scaling (so long as the compositor does).
mixmastamyk 6y ago
Get them the same resolution. I have a Dell laptop with Ubuntu Mate and two 4k screens. It has been running wonderfully for at least five years. I'd never go back to 1080.
commoner 6y ago
The following Linux distributions support different scaling factors on different displays by default: Pop!_OS, Ubuntu (and GNOME-based derivatives), Linux Mint. Arch Linux, Manjaro, and all distributions using GNOME + Wayland can also enable mixed scaling with a quick setting change. Pop!_OS (developed by System76) created its own HiDPI daemon to handle HiDPI and LoDPI displays on X11 at the same time: https://github.com/pop-os/hidpi-daemon https://github.com/pop-os/hidpi-daemon https://blog.system76.com/post/174414833678/all-about-the-hidpi-daemon https://blog.system76.com/post/174414833678/all-about-the-hi... It is preinstalled on all System76 computers and enabled by default. Ubuntu's fork of the Mutter display manager (used by its fork of GNOME) includes a patch to handle different display resolutions for HiDPI and LoDPI displays on X11: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1820850 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/182085... Ubuntu and all of its GNOME-based derivatives include this patch, unless it is specifically excluded by the maintainers. Linux Mint implemented fractional display scaling, with different settings for each display, in Cinnamon 4.6: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3858 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3858 Arch Linux and Manjaro users can also choose Cinnamon as the desktop environment for the same features. If you are using a GNOME on X11 on Manjaro, you can install the mutter-x11-scaling package to replace Mutter with a version that includes Ubuntu's changes: https://gitlab.manjaro.org/packages/extra/mutter-x11-scaling/-/tree/master https://gitlab.manjaro.org/packages/extra/mutter-x11-scaling... https://github.com/puxplaying/mutter-x11-scaling https://github.com/puxplaying/mutter-x11-scaling Finally, if you are using GNOME on Wayland, mixed scaling is already supported. To enable fractional scaling, activate the "scale-monitor-framebuffer" setting: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HiDPI#GNOME https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HiDPI#GNOME On Wayland, scaled applications that do not use GTK 3+ or Qt 5+ may appear blurry. This affects all Electron applications. X11 does not have the same issue, but Wayland is generally smoother and more stable than X11.

commoner 6y ago

The Adder WS has a 4K OLED display, although it's temporarily sold out: https://system76.com/laptops/adder https://system76.com/laptops/adder The Bonobo WS has a 4K display option at a higher price point: https://system76.com/laptops/bonobo https://system76.com/laptops/bonobo

tenacious_tuna 6y ago

They do! I have a Galago Pro from 2017ish I got from System76. It's a 13" form factor with a 3200x1800 display, which I find quite detailed. I'll echo the frustrations of other folk in the thread when using the device with an external monitor; at the time, the DPI scaling was a mess between the internal display and the external 4k I used for programming. It has been a couple years since I've tried that setup, so it's possible it's improved since then. I will say I've enjoyed the roadmap System76 has had for PopOS, including their work on HiDPI quality-of-life improvements.