29 ms·

NIMBYs really don't like 2 and 3 bedroom units because people with kids can move into them and get into "their" schools.

jedberg 6y ago
That applies in suburbs and single family zones, but not so much in high rises in the city center. The city center rarely has good school or NIMBYs, since most people there rent.
- umeshunni 6y ago
  > The city center rarely has NIMBYs San Francisco is, of course, an exception.
pchristensen 6y ago
I dislike NIMBYs, but this is one place where they have a valid practical complaint. Most schools are funded largely by property taxes, so the "price" of public school is roughly (housing cost)/(number of school-aged children). Larger apartments are still low housing cost compared to an equivalent house, so a family renting a large apartment will contribute less per student. And apartments come in bunches, so if you change an apartment complex from 100 studios and 1BR to 60 S/1BR and 20 2BR, you might 10x the fiscal impact of the complex on the school district. We get to pretend that there's not a per-student price for public school, while disguising the fact that there's a mostly congruent "space and quality of life" price instead. A different funding formula for schools would make a lot of practical NIMBYs stop caring.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > Larger apartments are still low housing cost compared to an equivalent house do you have an argument or source for this? I'm having a hard time finding a good breakdown of property tax assessed per unit in an apartment building. I can look at sale prices of condos vs homes on zillow, and it looks like condos tend to be more expensive per square foot. is your statement only true under the assumption that the apartment will fit the same number of bedrooms in a smaller floorplan?
  - pchristensen 6y ago
    I don't have a source. But conceptually, a condo or apartment generally has fewer square feet per bedroom, and doesn't include the land. I'm not sure how to capture this for rentals, but if you find a neighborhood with both apartments and single family homes, and look on Zillow, comparably size homes will cost more. I live in a house that's part of a condo complex (association, no private yards, no garages), and the exact same structure elsewhere in our neighborhood with a small (~3K sf) lot and a garage cost $200k more.
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      I did find this article [0] that argues the opposite: that (high-rise) condos are indeed more expensive per square foot. the fewer square feet per bedroom could be enough to offset this. I guess it doesn't really matter what the reality is; you could still be right that people perceive apartment dwellers not to be paying their fair share of school funding. [0] https://financialpost.com/real-estate/condos-cost-more-than-houses-per-square-foot-but-in-some-markets-the-gap-is-closing https://financialpost.com/real-estate/condos-cost-more-than-...
      - pchristensen 6y ago
        Yes, towers cost more per sq ft, but I’m talking about local comps - a house in a neighborhood with towers would cost tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. In most of America, towers are rare. Think more of 3 story apartment buildings along suburban arterials - those are unquestionably less expensive than the houses between the arterials.
npsimons 6y ago
Nail on the head. Article and other associated hand wringing reeks of NIMBYism.

jedberg 6y ago

That applies in suburbs and single family zones, but not so much in high rises in the city center. The city center rarely has good school or NIMBYs, since most people there rent.

umeshunni 6y ago
> The city center rarely has NIMBYs San Francisco is, of course, an exception.

pchristensen 6y ago

I dislike NIMBYs, but this is one place where they have a valid practical complaint. Most schools are funded largely by property taxes, so the "price" of public school is roughly (housing cost)/(number of school-aged children). Larger apartments are still low housing cost compared to an equivalent house, so a family renting a large apartment will contribute less per student. And apartments come in bunches, so if you change an apartment complex from 100 studios and 1BR to 60 S/1BR and 20 2BR, you might 10x the fiscal impact of the complex on the school district. We get to pretend that there's not a per-student price for public school, while disguising the fact that there's a mostly congruent "space and quality of life" price instead. A different funding formula for schools would make a lot of practical NIMBYs stop caring.

leetcrew 6y ago
> Larger apartments are still low housing cost compared to an equivalent house do you have an argument or source for this? I'm having a hard time finding a good breakdown of property tax assessed per unit in an apartment building. I can look at sale prices of condos vs homes on zillow, and it looks like condos tend to be more expensive per square foot. is your statement only true under the assumption that the apartment will fit the same number of bedrooms in a smaller floorplan?
- pchristensen 6y ago
  I don't have a source. But conceptually, a condo or apartment generally has fewer square feet per bedroom, and doesn't include the land. I'm not sure how to capture this for rentals, but if you find a neighborhood with both apartments and single family homes, and look on Zillow, comparably size homes will cost more. I live in a house that's part of a condo complex (association, no private yards, no garages), and the exact same structure elsewhere in our neighborhood with a small (~3K sf) lot and a garage cost $200k more.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    I did find this article [0] that argues the opposite: that (high-rise) condos are indeed more expensive per square foot. the fewer square feet per bedroom could be enough to offset this. I guess it doesn't really matter what the reality is; you could still be right that people perceive apartment dwellers not to be paying their fair share of school funding. [0] https://financialpost.com/real-estate/condos-cost-more-than-houses-per-square-foot-but-in-some-markets-the-gap-is-closing https://financialpost.com/real-estate/condos-cost-more-than-...
    - pchristensen 6y ago
      Yes, towers cost more per sq ft, but I’m talking about local comps - a house in a neighborhood with towers would cost tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. In most of America, towers are rare. Think more of 3 story apartment buildings along suburban arterials - those are unquestionably less expensive than the houses between the arterials.

npsimons 6y ago

Nail on the head. Article and other associated hand wringing reeks of NIMBYism.