4 ms·

The thing I don't understand about the P2 Max and every other micro laptop currently on the market is why they shun the trackpoint. Now, at least the P2 Max co

The thing I don't understand about the P2 Max and every other micro laptop currently on the market is why they shun the trackpoint. Now, at least the P2 Max comes with a touchpad. Others like the Mix A1 rely on an optical touchpoint, which is the worst pointing device ever conceived by the human mind. A boiled egg mounted into a trackball mouse would be more pleasant to use than an optical touchpoint.

lqet 6y ago
This is the main reason why I will stick to my modded Thinkpad X61 [0]. Small, classic trackpoint, no touchpad. [0] https://geoff.greer.fm/2017/07/16/thinkpad-x62/ https://geoff.greer.fm/2017/07/16/thinkpad-x62/
- mizzack 6y ago
  I dusted off my X61 this past week. Repasted, threw a cheap SSD in, and newer mPCIE Wifi card. After playing around with undervolting and fan control it idles silently. Battery life on the 6 cell is 5-6 hours light use. It was a pretty amazing package for that sort of power in 2007, and it's still a joy to use -- especially with modern improvements. Now if I could just find a nice SXGA+ screen...
  - lqet 6y ago
    > Now if I could just find a nice SXGA+ screen... Took me a few months to find one on eBay, a replacement part of a X61s. Fitting this thing into the X61 was... interesting. It involved a few hours of Dremeling. I am convinced it was poor luck I didn't break it.
buran77 6y ago
The trackpoint most likely adds more to the thickness of the keyboard assembly than a touchpad. So in that neverending quest for the razorblade laptop thickness is shaved all around. They're also an extra expense very few people care about. Most people who grew up with a touchpad hate the trackpoint experience and wouldn't use it for free, let alone pay for it or have it as only option. I own IBM and more recently Lenovo laptops because they still come with that red nub and I instinctively use it but I can understand why manufacturers don't bother including one given how little the market cares for them. But the laptop still needs the space there in order to have a decent form factor. If anything it would need more space under the keyboard to have an even better 4:3 aspect ratio.
- fencepost 6y ago
  I used trackpoints for years on Toshiba and Lenovo laptops, but had moved away from them until I recently replaced one with a cup-style cap. Holy smokes what a difference. Now on that laptop I find myself jumping from the touchpad to the trackpoint. So, if you're not so thrilled with pointing sticks as you once were, try a few different styles. Maybe you just have bad caps.
zamadatix 6y ago
As odd as it sounds the best mouse experience I've had on a mini PC was with the Win 2 https://i.imgur.com/MAAPc3e.png https://i.imgur.com/MAAPc3e.png Normally I'd say joysticks are a painful way to control a mouse but the combination of small screen, smart controls (right shoulder was right click, left shoulder was left click, holding the second shoulder button would multiply your speed), and being naturally where your fingers were while holding the device without having to change your grip as you moved around or switched to using the mouse/keyboard really made the usability sing. The keyboard was a little floaty instead of solid and the joysticks were... there :)... but despite not being the best hardware I never had trouble controlling it. Now if only we could throw an M1 in something of that form factor! Heat/performance (the same thing at this form factor) was what killed the device for me.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
recursive 6y ago
I've never used an optical touchpoint, but it's hard for me to imagine a pointing device that's worse than trackpoints. I didn't know their name until just now when I searched it. Oh, that eraser thing in the middle of the keyboard. I would pay extra for a keyboard that didn't have one of those on it.
- alextingle 6y ago
  They do divide opinion. I never use my trackpad, and always just use the trackpoint.
- IggleSniggle 6y ago
  I love trackpoints, but suspect that they are a lot nicer for gamers who are accustomed to joysticks that respond to how much throttle you supply along each axis than for non-gamers where the micromovements needed are more frustrating. But now I'm remembering the laptop trackball. Does anyone else remember these? I remember them being built into the back of the monitor (or maybe just below, on the keyboard chasis), so that when you grasped the laptop in both hands near the natural balance point near the monitor, your right thumb would naturally sit atop the trackball. Suddenly, I'd love to see a micro-computer that had a joystick on the front right and a chording keyboard on the bottom, with meta-keys on top. So you type with 8 fingers on the back (and one left thumb on top), and perform mouse actions with your right thumb (clickable joystick seems about right for the form-factor).

lqet 6y ago

This is the main reason why I will stick to my modded Thinkpad X61 [0]. Small, classic trackpoint, no touchpad. [0] https://geoff.greer.fm/2017/07/16/thinkpad-x62/ https://geoff.greer.fm/2017/07/16/thinkpad-x62/

mizzack 6y ago
I dusted off my X61 this past week. Repasted, threw a cheap SSD in, and newer mPCIE Wifi card. After playing around with undervolting and fan control it idles silently. Battery life on the 6 cell is 5-6 hours light use. It was a pretty amazing package for that sort of power in 2007, and it's still a joy to use -- especially with modern improvements. Now if I could just find a nice SXGA+ screen...
- lqet 6y ago
  > Now if I could just find a nice SXGA+ screen... Took me a few months to find one on eBay, a replacement part of a X61s. Fitting this thing into the X61 was... interesting. It involved a few hours of Dremeling. I am convinced it was poor luck I didn't break it.

buran77 6y ago

The trackpoint most likely adds more to the thickness of the keyboard assembly than a touchpad. So in that neverending quest for the razorblade laptop thickness is shaved all around. They're also an extra expense very few people care about. Most people who grew up with a touchpad hate the trackpoint experience and wouldn't use it for free, let alone pay for it or have it as only option. I own IBM and more recently Lenovo laptops because they still come with that red nub and I instinctively use it but I can understand why manufacturers don't bother including one given how little the market cares for them. But the laptop still needs the space there in order to have a decent form factor. If anything it would need more space under the keyboard to have an even better 4:3 aspect ratio.

fencepost 6y ago
I used trackpoints for years on Toshiba and Lenovo laptops, but had moved away from them until I recently replaced one with a cup-style cap. Holy smokes what a difference. Now on that laptop I find myself jumping from the touchpad to the trackpoint. So, if you're not so thrilled with pointing sticks as you once were, try a few different styles. Maybe you just have bad caps.

zamadatix 6y ago

As odd as it sounds the best mouse experience I've had on a mini PC was with the Win 2 https://i.imgur.com/MAAPc3e.png https://i.imgur.com/MAAPc3e.png Normally I'd say joysticks are a painful way to control a mouse but the combination of small screen, smart controls (right shoulder was right click, left shoulder was left click, holding the second shoulder button would multiply your speed), and being naturally where your fingers were while holding the device without having to change your grip as you moved around or switched to using the mouse/keyboard really made the usability sing. The keyboard was a little floaty instead of solid and the joysticks were... there :)... but despite not being the best hardware I never had trouble controlling it. Now if only we could throw an M1 in something of that form factor! Heat/performance (the same thing at this form factor) was what killed the device for me.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

recursive 6y ago

I've never used an optical touchpoint, but it's hard for me to imagine a pointing device that's worse than trackpoints. I didn't know their name until just now when I searched it. Oh, that eraser thing in the middle of the keyboard. I would pay extra for a keyboard that didn't have one of those on it.

alextingle 6y ago
They do divide opinion. I never use my trackpad, and always just use the trackpoint.
IggleSniggle 6y ago
I love trackpoints, but suspect that they are a lot nicer for gamers who are accustomed to joysticks that respond to how much throttle you supply along each axis than for non-gamers where the micromovements needed are more frustrating. But now I'm remembering the laptop trackball. Does anyone else remember these? I remember them being built into the back of the monitor (or maybe just below, on the keyboard chasis), so that when you grasped the laptop in both hands near the natural balance point near the monitor, your right thumb would naturally sit atop the trackball. Suddenly, I'd love to see a micro-computer that had a joystick on the front right and a chording keyboard on the bottom, with meta-keys on top. So you type with 8 fingers on the back (and one left thumb on top), and perform mouse actions with your right thumb (clickable joystick seems about right for the form-factor).