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There is no such thing as an ethical ad. Advertising is a cynical deployment of our knowledge of crowd wisdom, media manipulation, and statistics to make peopl

There is no such thing as an ethical ad. Advertising is a cynical deployment of our knowledge of crowd wisdom, media manipulation, and statistics to make people part with their money for things they wouldn't think they needed. Our economy can't handle this kind of reckless consumerism anymore. Worse yet, we don't need advertising to bolster our media. Unfortunately, the media execs don't realize this yet. All your metrics are fuzzy, your standards ridiculous. We have far better practices we can deploy than the ones the advertisers use. Please, stop advertising to us. If that's all you plan to do with this new company, can you please kindly go away?

ericholscher 6y ago
If you'd like to suggest another way to make OSS sustainable, I'd be all ears. A bit more color here: https://www.ericholscher.com/blog/2016/aug/31/funding-oss-marketing-money/ https://www.ericholscher.com/blog/2016/aug/31/funding-oss-ma...
- myWindoonn 6y ago
  Rather than open source, let us return to Free Software. The point of our labor is not to ensure that we are paid; it is to tear down the systems which create inequality and scarcity in the first place.
- smichel17 6y ago
  I'm working on https://snowdrift.coop https://snowdrift.coop for that. We could use help, particularly from anyone who's good with css.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
  You've obviously thought this out extensively and decided to advertise. Who am I to offer a better solution? You know your business domain, revenue needs, etc better than me or anyone else. However, that does not mean I have to agree to advertising -- whether it is labeled ethical, green, sustainable, cage-free or whatever. If you're lucky, you won't have a lot of extremists like myself visiting your site; i.e. the advertising will be successful.
scotu 6y ago
there is no such a thing as an ethical comment. Comments are a cynical deployment of our knowledge of crowd wisdom, media manipulation, and statistics to make people part with their opinions for others they wouldn't think they agree with. -- Sorry, there is such a think as "more" ethical ads. If you want to be pedantic and argue they should use "more" suit yourself. But things are not black and white, your comment is in itself "manipulating" the reader trying to convince them that ads are all the same and that they cannot be put on an ehtical spectrum which is not true: tracking ads vs billboard, I'd much rather a billboard (which I hate in and on itself as they are usually just making the place they are in uglier).
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
  I'm not trying to manipulate anyone. I'm voicing my opinion. I don't buy anything from advertisements. Period. When I need something, I shop for it. And if you think I'm alone, you're kidding yourself.
  - scotu 6y ago
    that's totally fine. I prefer a world without advertisement, ideally. I disagree with you that there is no spectrum of ad ethics. And while you are not "trying" to manipulate anyone (maybe), I also disagree that you are not effectively influencing your reader thoughts to some degree. The analogy I made is: even an internet comment does, on a smaller scale, less maliciously, use persuasion techniques: should we get rid of discussion forums too? I don't think so, and while an ad-less world seems like a nice experiment, sounds pretty unrealistic, regulating (outlawing would be nice) tracking in ads? More realistic and fixing 80% of what's wrong with 20% of the effort if you ask me
    - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
      You're right that an ad-less world is impossible. Advertisements existed before you and I were both alive and they will exist when we're gone. But that does not mean I have to partake in them, watch them, or allow them to consume my attention and time. I also don't need to spend my limited time on this planet trying to "fix advertising". I can simply block them and ignore the ones that slip through, and get on with my life. If this is an issue that is dear to your heart, that sentiment undoubtedly feels dismissive. I'm sorry about that.
sbarre 6y ago
I am really confused by this position. How do you propose that companies should promote their products and services, if not through advertising? Are you somehow suggesting that they should just sit there and hope that people who have never heard of their product independently decide they happen to want or need that product and seek it out, unprompted? You say "people part with their money for things they wouldn't think they needed, Our economy can't handle this kind of reckless consumerism anymore": Surely you don't think you speak for everyone? You certainly don't speak for me. I am not some blind sheep who is suckered into buying things I don't need. I am a grown adult who can make informed decisions with my money, including sometimes buying frivolous or unnecessary things. I hate these arguments that assume everyone is stupid except for the person making the argument. It feels like there's some weird savior complex at work. People have free will and are allowed to spend their money as they wish, and I think YOU are the cynical one if you think otherwise..
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
  > Are you somehow suggesting that they should just sit there and hope that people who have never heard of their product independently decide they happen to want or need that product and seek it out, unprompted? Yeah, it's even got a name: shopping.
  - sbarre 6y ago
    And how do you know about the existence of a product to go shop for in the first place, if not through advertising and promotion? Or do you have infinite time to go browse every single store in your city on the odd chance that you'll see something you want?
    - CRConrad 6y ago
      If only there were some way one could search for specific things on the Web.
    - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
      There are these wonderful things now called search engines. And they existed before online advertising was tied to search, so before you say search engines would not exist without advertising attached to search queries, think again.
AngryData 6y ago
I like what that guy is doing, but I still have to agree with you. To me ads are just money focused propaganda, abusing human psychology to make people spend money they on crap they don't need.

ericholscher 6y ago

If you'd like to suggest another way to make OSS sustainable, I'd be all ears. A bit more color here: https://www.ericholscher.com/blog/2016/aug/31/funding-oss-marketing-money/ https://www.ericholscher.com/blog/2016/aug/31/funding-oss-ma...

myWindoonn 6y ago
Rather than open source, let us return to Free Software. The point of our labor is not to ensure that we are paid; it is to tear down the systems which create inequality and scarcity in the first place.
smichel17 6y ago
I'm working on https://snowdrift.coop https://snowdrift.coop for that. We could use help, particularly from anyone who's good with css.
TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
You've obviously thought this out extensively and decided to advertise. Who am I to offer a better solution? You know your business domain, revenue needs, etc better than me or anyone else. However, that does not mean I have to agree to advertising -- whether it is labeled ethical, green, sustainable, cage-free or whatever. If you're lucky, you won't have a lot of extremists like myself visiting your site; i.e. the advertising will be successful.

scotu 6y ago

there is no such a thing as an ethical comment. Comments are a cynical deployment of our knowledge of crowd wisdom, media manipulation, and statistics to make people part with their opinions for others they wouldn't think they agree with. -- Sorry, there is such a think as "more" ethical ads. If you want to be pedantic and argue they should use "more" suit yourself. But things are not black and white, your comment is in itself "manipulating" the reader trying to convince them that ads are all the same and that they cannot be put on an ehtical spectrum which is not true: tracking ads vs billboard, I'd much rather a billboard (which I hate in and on itself as they are usually just making the place they are in uglier).

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
I'm not trying to manipulate anyone. I'm voicing my opinion. I don't buy anything from advertisements. Period. When I need something, I shop for it. And if you think I'm alone, you're kidding yourself.
- scotu 6y ago
  that's totally fine. I prefer a world without advertisement, ideally. I disagree with you that there is no spectrum of ad ethics. And while you are not "trying" to manipulate anyone (maybe), I also disagree that you are not effectively influencing your reader thoughts to some degree. The analogy I made is: even an internet comment does, on a smaller scale, less maliciously, use persuasion techniques: should we get rid of discussion forums too? I don't think so, and while an ad-less world seems like a nice experiment, sounds pretty unrealistic, regulating (outlawing would be nice) tracking in ads? More realistic and fixing 80% of what's wrong with 20% of the effort if you ask me
  - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
    You're right that an ad-less world is impossible. Advertisements existed before you and I were both alive and they will exist when we're gone. But that does not mean I have to partake in them, watch them, or allow them to consume my attention and time. I also don't need to spend my limited time on this planet trying to "fix advertising". I can simply block them and ignore the ones that slip through, and get on with my life. If this is an issue that is dear to your heart, that sentiment undoubtedly feels dismissive. I'm sorry about that.

sbarre 6y ago

I am really confused by this position. How do you propose that companies should promote their products and services, if not through advertising? Are you somehow suggesting that they should just sit there and hope that people who have never heard of their product independently decide they happen to want or need that product and seek it out, unprompted? You say "people part with their money for things they wouldn't think they needed, Our economy can't handle this kind of reckless consumerism anymore": Surely you don't think you speak for everyone? You certainly don't speak for me. I am not some blind sheep who is suckered into buying things I don't need. I am a grown adult who can make informed decisions with my money, including sometimes buying frivolous or unnecessary things. I hate these arguments that assume everyone is stupid except for the person making the argument. It feels like there's some weird savior complex at work. People have free will and are allowed to spend their money as they wish, and I think YOU are the cynical one if you think otherwise..

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
> Are you somehow suggesting that they should just sit there and hope that people who have never heard of their product independently decide they happen to want or need that product and seek it out, unprompted? Yeah, it's even got a name: shopping.
- sbarre 6y ago
  And how do you know about the existence of a product to go shop for in the first place, if not through advertising and promotion? Or do you have infinite time to go browse every single store in your city on the odd chance that you'll see something you want?
  - CRConrad 6y ago
    If only there were some way one could search for specific things on the Web.
  - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
    There are these wonderful things now called search engines. And they existed before online advertising was tied to search, so before you say search engines would not exist without advertising attached to search queries, think again.

AngryData 6y ago

I like what that guy is doing, but I still have to agree with you. To me ads are just money focused propaganda, abusing human psychology to make people spend money they on crap they don't need.