6 ms·

South African government releases its own browser just to re-enable Flash

35 points by alexrustic 6y ago

polka_haunts_us 6y ago
There's some lesson in here about preferring open standards to proprietary software, but good luck finding anybody of import willing to learn it.
mikestew 6y ago
Pay my taxes through some one-off browser made by an organization that wouldn't/couldn't otherwise update their software in time to make the cut-off? Yeah, that sounds secure and like something I want on my machine. Oh, wait, I have a Mac... (The joke in that last sentence is that the browser, to add insult to injury, only runs on Windows.)
- animal531 6y ago
  The really sad thing is that tax in SA is really really easy as a generic employee. Your employer submits all documentation beforehand. You login, verify everything (on what's basically a giant fillable pdf document) vs your own docs and submit. That's it. But they've always been using Flash, and it seems the system has been getting worse and worse over the last few years.
quercusa 6y ago
This seems like an echo from 15 years ago when LargeCorps couldn't be bothered to update their server code to not require IE6.
- MrMorden 6y ago
  Not entirely coincidentally, they've known or should have known for at least that long that putting new workload on Flash would not lead to rising property values in Tokyo. They knew exactly what the consequences would be and did it anyway. Buy the ticket, take the ride.
vfclists 6y ago
The flip side of this state affairs no one want to talk about is that Flash enables developers of rich internet applications to bypass the web stores of Google, Apple and Microsoft. The simple truth is that all the stories about Flash being buggy and open to exploits is that there was nothing in it that couldn't be fixed. For those with short memories they should remember that Microsoft also abandoned Silverlight, although there was nothing fundamentally wrong with it, and that its Linux equivalent Moonlight was also mothballed. Flash was abandoned to buy time for Google and Microsoft to entrench themselves in desktop and browser apps which they now rent, because developing such apps for browser technologies is an expensive exercise in fitting square pegs in round holes only they have the manpower to afford, or to buy out competitors as the competitors find it hard to survive in markets they give stuff away for free until users get hooked on them. Steve Job's ban on Flash was a blatant act rooted in self interest that the media conveniently ignored, spouting the nonsense about Flash's bugginess as though it couldn't be fixed. As for Adobe(Flash) and Microsoft(Silverlight) why would they support tools which would enable competitors to offer applications over the net that could rival their desktop offerings? It is in the same way that the latest snake oil, WebAssembly, is doomed to fail because GAM will never permit web applications that may equal or surpass their own offerings or threaten their mobile ecosystems. On a side note who in their right mind develops contemporary desktop applications in C++ unless they want to deliver their applications in opaque blobs? Would Epic get into a spat with Apple if their games could be played through the browser? Today so many people are so afflicted by the Stockholm Syndrome inflicted by GAM that they seriously believe that web apps cannot rival or match their desktop equivalents, somehow forgetting the huge increases in chip peformance on both mobiles and desktops that should make it a doddle in browsers that are stymied by "modern web safety and security standards", set by you know who.
- meibo 6y ago
  > It is in the same way that the latest snake oil, WebAssembly, is doomed to fail because GAM will never permit web applications that may equal or surpass their own offerings or threaten their mobile ecosystems. Google is the primary driver of the PWA standard - you can make great, native-like webapps on Android that will install themselves through their "WebAPK" system. I'm not sure why they are doing this, it may just be another way to step around monopoly charges - either way, it's cool tech. Apple is the real issue here, because they purposefully cripple any such API, if they ever get around to implementing it(they have far more to lose). Just look at the MDN pages of any API built to facilitate native-like capabilities, you'll see them all missing or crippled on mobile Safari.
peter_d_sherman 6y ago
>"Flash Player reached its official end of life (EOL) on December 31, 2020, when Adobe officially stopped supporting the software. To prevent the app from continuing to be used in the real-world to the detriment of users and their security, Adobe also began blocking Flash content from playing inside the app starting January 12, with the help of a time-bomb mechanism. As Adobe hoped, this last step worked as intended and prevented companies from continuing using the software, forcing many to update systems and remove the app. As SARS tweeted on January 12, the agency was impacted by the time-bomb mechanism, and starting that day, the agency was unable to receive any tax filings via its web portal, where the upload forms were designed as Flash widgets." PDS: There's a greater problem at stake here. That problem can broadly be summarized as follows: 1) What happens when all forms of money/payment become electronic; 2) What happens when, for whatever reason, the underlying electronic system (which includes but is not limited to Computers, Software, Internet, etc.) -- fails? Use another electronic system, right? Well then what about: 3) What happens when one or more crucial components in ALL electronic payment systems (Internet, Electricity, Software, ?) -- fail simultaneously, at the same time? ? It could never happen? ? If you truly believe that, then please read the following: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/11/11/the-law-of-leaky-abstractions https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/11/11/the-law-of-leaky-a... Perhaps having equal parts Gold, Silver, Currency, and a stock of easily tradeable items (Coffee, Sugar, Flour, Soup Cans, Noodles, Water Filtration Devices, Batteries, etc.) would be a good hedge against that possibility... Also, the right survival skills -- would be as valuable as Gold...
- peter_d_sherman 6y ago
  To the people that downvoted: "East Coast Internet Outage" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25917798 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25917798

35 points by alexrustic 6y ago

There's some lesson in here about preferring open standards to proprietary software, but good luck finding anybody of import willing to learn it.

mikestew 6y ago

Pay my taxes through some one-off browser made by an organization that wouldn't/couldn't otherwise update their software in time to make the cut-off? Yeah, that sounds secure and like something I want on my machine. Oh, wait, I have a Mac... (The joke in that last sentence is that the browser, to add insult to injury, only runs on Windows.)

animal531 6y ago
The really sad thing is that tax in SA is really really easy as a generic employee. Your employer submits all documentation beforehand. You login, verify everything (on what's basically a giant fillable pdf document) vs your own docs and submit. That's it. But they've always been using Flash, and it seems the system has been getting worse and worse over the last few years.

quercusa 6y ago

This seems like an echo from 15 years ago when LargeCorps couldn't be bothered to update their server code to not require IE6.

MrMorden 6y ago
Not entirely coincidentally, they've known or should have known for at least that long that putting new workload on Flash would not lead to rising property values in Tokyo. They knew exactly what the consequences would be and did it anyway. Buy the ticket, take the ride.

vfclists 6y ago

The flip side of this state affairs no one want to talk about is that Flash enables developers of rich internet applications to bypass the web stores of Google, Apple and Microsoft. The simple truth is that all the stories about Flash being buggy and open to exploits is that there was nothing in it that couldn't be fixed. For those with short memories they should remember that Microsoft also abandoned Silverlight, although there was nothing fundamentally wrong with it, and that its Linux equivalent Moonlight was also mothballed. Flash was abandoned to buy time for Google and Microsoft to entrench themselves in desktop and browser apps which they now rent, because developing such apps for browser technologies is an expensive exercise in fitting square pegs in round holes only they have the manpower to afford, or to buy out competitors as the competitors find it hard to survive in markets they give stuff away for free until users get hooked on them. Steve Job's ban on Flash was a blatant act rooted in self interest that the media conveniently ignored, spouting the nonsense about Flash's bugginess as though it couldn't be fixed. As for Adobe(Flash) and Microsoft(Silverlight) why would they support tools which would enable competitors to offer applications over the net that could rival their desktop offerings? It is in the same way that the latest snake oil, WebAssembly, is doomed to fail because GAM will never permit web applications that may equal or surpass their own offerings or threaten their mobile ecosystems. On a side note who in their right mind develops contemporary desktop applications in C++ unless they want to deliver their applications in opaque blobs? Would Epic get into a spat with Apple if their games could be played through the browser? Today so many people are so afflicted by the Stockholm Syndrome inflicted by GAM that they seriously believe that web apps cannot rival or match their desktop equivalents, somehow forgetting the huge increases in chip peformance on both mobiles and desktops that should make it a doddle in browsers that are stymied by "modern web safety and security standards", set by you know who.

meibo 6y ago
> It is in the same way that the latest snake oil, WebAssembly, is doomed to fail because GAM will never permit web applications that may equal or surpass their own offerings or threaten their mobile ecosystems. Google is the primary driver of the PWA standard - you can make great, native-like webapps on Android that will install themselves through their "WebAPK" system. I'm not sure why they are doing this, it may just be another way to step around monopoly charges - either way, it's cool tech. Apple is the real issue here, because they purposefully cripple any such API, if they ever get around to implementing it(they have far more to lose). Just look at the MDN pages of any API built to facilitate native-like capabilities, you'll see them all missing or crippled on mobile Safari.

peter_d_sherman 6y ago

>"Flash Player reached its official end of life (EOL) on December 31, 2020, when Adobe officially stopped supporting the software. To prevent the app from continuing to be used in the real-world to the detriment of users and their security, Adobe also began blocking Flash content from playing inside the app starting January 12, with the help of a time-bomb mechanism. As Adobe hoped, this last step worked as intended and prevented companies from continuing using the software, forcing many to update systems and remove the app. As SARS tweeted on January 12, the agency was impacted by the time-bomb mechanism, and starting that day, the agency was unable to receive any tax filings via its web portal, where the upload forms were designed as Flash widgets." PDS: There's a greater problem at stake here. That problem can broadly be summarized as follows: 1) What happens when all forms of money/payment become electronic; 2) What happens when, for whatever reason, the underlying electronic system (which includes but is not limited to Computers, Software, Internet, etc.) -- fails? Use another electronic system, right? Well then what about: 3) What happens when one or more crucial components in ALL electronic payment systems (Internet, Electricity, Software, ?) -- fail simultaneously, at the same time? ? It could never happen? ? If you truly believe that, then please read the following: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/11/11/the-law-of-leaky-abstractions https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/11/11/the-law-of-leaky-a... Perhaps having equal parts Gold, Silver, Currency, and a stock of easily tradeable items (Coffee, Sugar, Flour, Soup Cans, Noodles, Water Filtration Devices, Batteries, etc.) would be a good hedge against that possibility... Also, the right survival skills -- would be as valuable as Gold...

peter_d_sherman 6y ago
To the people that downvoted: "East Coast Internet Outage" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25917798 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25917798