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This I think is the wisest comment I've read here. We live in an age where many people earnestly believe they can reengineer society. They identify aspects of

by j123 15y ago

This I think is the wisest comment I've read here. We live in an age where many people earnestly believe they can reengineer society. They identify aspects of human nature which they don't like and think it's open to reeducation. There is such a thing as human nature. Tabula rasa is a myth.

pessimizer 15y ago
Society has been re-engineered any number of times, to good and bad effect. If you think that how it is where you are right now is how it is, has been, and always will be everywhere, you're wrong. Society is made of people, including visionaries and others who are captivated by their visions and have the ability to implement them. Contemplating human society is not the same as contemplating the stars.
- j123 15y ago
  Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that there is no such thing as culture (as opposed to innate behavior) or that it couldn't change. But there are innate behaviors too. That newborns are a blank slate, a "tabula rasa" as Locke called it in Latin, to have whatever new form of behavior we want imprinted upon them is a fallacy. It was a hypothesis at one point, but now it's known to be false. Some facets of human behavior are largely the same for all times and in all places. Tribalism and territoriality, e.g. These things will always be with us. It's hopeless to think a day exists on the horizon in which these will be eliminated. A more mature approach is to accept humanity for what it is. Improve what can be improved upon and don't aggravate those features which are here to stay. Fossil fuels rushed humanity into a new era of mass immigration comparable to the "people wanderings" which characterize Late Antiquity in Europe. But it's now happened globally. It's popular to pretend we can overcome tribalism and territoriality. We'll see. If not, though, we're in for some excitement in the coming years.
- philwelch 15y ago
  Society isn't engineered, it evolves. If you try to engineer society it'll never come out quite the same way you intended; there are always unintended consequences because people are so messy and complicated. Primary example: society is continually engineered to eliminate poverty, and yet poverty persists.
  - pessimizer 15y ago
    Society evolves. Society is often engineered. The attempts often turn out badly, or well. Many societies are engineered to reduce poverty, and many societies have.

by j123 15y ago

pessimizer 15y ago

Society has been re-engineered any number of times, to good and bad effect. If you think that how it is where you are right now is how it is, has been, and always will be everywhere, you're wrong. Society is made of people, including visionaries and others who are captivated by their visions and have the ability to implement them. Contemplating human society is not the same as contemplating the stars.

j123 15y ago
Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that there is no such thing as culture (as opposed to innate behavior) or that it couldn't change. But there are innate behaviors too. That newborns are a blank slate, a "tabula rasa" as Locke called it in Latin, to have whatever new form of behavior we want imprinted upon them is a fallacy. It was a hypothesis at one point, but now it's known to be false. Some facets of human behavior are largely the same for all times and in all places. Tribalism and territoriality, e.g. These things will always be with us. It's hopeless to think a day exists on the horizon in which these will be eliminated. A more mature approach is to accept humanity for what it is. Improve what can be improved upon and don't aggravate those features which are here to stay. Fossil fuels rushed humanity into a new era of mass immigration comparable to the "people wanderings" which characterize Late Antiquity in Europe. But it's now happened globally. It's popular to pretend we can overcome tribalism and territoriality. We'll see. If not, though, we're in for some excitement in the coming years.
philwelch 15y ago
Society isn't engineered, it evolves. If you try to engineer society it'll never come out quite the same way you intended; there are always unintended consequences because people are so messy and complicated. Primary example: society is continually engineered to eliminate poverty, and yet poverty persists.
- pessimizer 15y ago
  Society evolves. Society is often engineered. The attempts often turn out badly, or well. Many societies are engineered to reduce poverty, and many societies have.