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I was in London the day of and after the Brexit vote in 2016. I still remember the shock of so many people there, including EU citizens who didn't know where th

I was in London the day of and after the Brexit vote in 2016. I still remember the shock of so many people there, including EU citizens who didn't know where they'd live or work when it was all over. I often wonder what happened to some of those people. As I recall, nobody who actually lived in London wanted Brexit to happen - the only person I met who did was a cabbie who lived outside of the city. He told us we were his last ride. He had to get home to vote. I hope at least he got what he wanted. From my perspective, Brexit has always seemed like an absolutely massive economic, political, and cultural self-own. It seems like it was born from a sense of self-importance that was based in a kind of Britain that just doesn't exist anymore - one that is the head of an empire, not just a piece of one. I understand why the arguments for it worked, but I wish they hadn't, because this nonsense (and much worse!) was always where it was going to end up. But I'm not British, so what do I know? My country hasn't done much better in terms of political decision making. For those who supported it here, I sincerely hope it's been worth it.

wyldfire 6y ago
> From my perspective, Brexit has always seemed like an absolutely massive economic, political, and cultural self-own. I agree. But it's less humiliating than the MAGA and QAnon crowds' self-own.
- loriverkutya 6y ago
  Wait a few months and reevaluate this comment.
- levidavidmurray 6y ago
  1. No one was talking about the U.S. 2. "Yeah, but it's not as bad as X" doesn't help anyone
  - wyldfire 6y ago
    1. You're right, I brought it up. I think it's ok/acceptable to compare/contrast these kinds of things among countries. 2. You're right, I'm wallowing in self-pity for my country's massive recent failures.
  - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
    humiliation is just semantics here. the bigger picture is that it was the same forces and interests that were behind MAGA, Brexit, AfD/Germany, LePen/France, Orban/Hungary FPÖ/Austria, Northern-League/Italy, Geert-Wilders/NL, etc etc ... Many other (EU) countries that experienced a right-wing surge - and it wasn't an isolated problem of "the Brits (or Americans) had gone crazy". US politics were more visible (=no surprise: biggest Western country and also noisiest media and propaganda dressed up as entertainment). But to recall: S. Bannon and N. Farage meeting at the same venues, inviting each other to give talks and share ideas on strategy to turn the world Nazi (we have literally white power groups in my city who got inspired by these scumbags and followed them regardless of them being "foreigners"). Meanwhile we know from Panama Papers that Banks got funding from Russia to bankroll the UKIP campaign, the Austrian minister invited Putin to her wedding, German ex chancellor Schröder immediately joined the Gazprom board after exiting politics and was instrumental to secure Norstream2. Literally every individual or party in the above list has received funding from Russia to drive their right wing campaigns, all while Putin is sitting in a palace. Also it should be made clear that nobody (Putin or any other dictator) would have had the remotest chance of compromising and undermining politics if it wouldn't have been for the left and its incompetent self absorbed doctrine over the past 3 decades (and even after the 2008 financial crisis). So while nobody is helped by comparisons of who is off the worst we should remember that there is a whole structure behind this who see it as "fighting for their business interests". And while we're in the next months no doubt all tearing each other apart about this the real villains are at large and hiding behind the crumbling facade of our "democratic institutions". IMO acknowledging that this is a global problem that needs to be quashed no matter where we are is an important step in finding a cure.
- jen20 6y ago
  As a British supporter of the EU living in the USA - no it isn't, in the slightest. Indeed, the two are so intrinsically linked, it's best not to think of them as separate.
billyruffian 6y ago
> nobody who actually lived in London wanted Brexit to happen 40% of the London vote did[1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/912939/brexit-major-cities-vote-share/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/912939/brexit-major-citi...
- jokethrowaway 6y ago
  It wasn't politically correct to vote Brexit, so nobody mentioned it and just voted. I couldn't vote as a European in UK but I would have voted Leave. I'd take a business / economic hit over having a political end economic entity rule my country, especially one which contains countries that are ticking bombs with no hope to recover. No amount of austerity will fix Greece's and Italy's economies and there are no plans of reducing their gigantic governments. Varoufakis has been speaking for ages and nobody is listening.
  - spzb 6y ago
    > I couldn't vote as a European in UK but I would have voted Leave. Thank God for that, as you seem to not understand any of the issues involved. Greece's problems relate to the Euro which the UK had opted out of. And the notion that some central EU interloper has invaded us and taken over our legislature is just fantasy put about by Little Englander and disaster capitalists.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      It’s fascinating how many of the Leave arguments, as much as they exist, either boil down to not understanding how the EU works, or blaming the EU for mistakes that the UK government made.
      - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
        https://youtu.be/rvYuoWyk8iU https://youtu.be/rvYuoWyk8iU : almost 40 years ago, Sir Humphrey explains the EEC(EU)..from Yes, Minister.
      - 6y ago
PicassoCTs 6y ago
Its the result of a large part of the population being -defacto- disconnected from any economic activity. Yes they receive unemployment benefits /social welfare. Often for generations - but this just is not enough. The mind knows you do not contribute to your community, even though your pot is full of food. Autarky rebellions like brexxit address this dependence on society needing a member. I find this psychological need not really catered for in UBI concepts.
ashtonkem 6y ago
I worked in Finance in 2016 & 2017, on the team that managed the trade & position store for the entire company. We kept a few big graphs up of the important statistics of the day, including total daily trades. Nobody thought much about Brexit because the traders knew that they wouldn’t be so foolish as to vote for it. The pandemonium once everyone realized the vote came back yes was unbelievable. We blew through the record number of trades by a factor of 2x. I thought I’d never see anything like it ... until November 2016.
qppo 6y ago
To me, there's an irony that the nationalist desire to sever Britain from the EU is the best way to hasten the dissolution of Great Britain. Now that Brexit is done with, reunification of Ireland and Scottish Independence are in the conversation. I'm also not British so I don't know how serious those conversations are. But the assured economic and political disaster of Brexit wasn't enough to stop that ridiculous idea, so who's to say the same won't happen to the marginally less ridiculous proposition to reunify Ireland and establish an independent Scotland for the first time in centuries?
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  It’s generally assumed that Irish unification will happen sometime this century. Demographic trends in Northern Ireland have been towards union with Ireland and away from remaining in the UK. Especially since Ireland is becoming less catholic, which was one of the bigger sources of trouble(s). The fact that NI has the right to call a referendum at will certainly makes this a likely outcome within the next half century or so. Brexit will probably accelerate this process, as it’s impossible for London to completely break with EU trade policy, not put up a tariff border between England and NI, and respect the Good Friday agreement. It’s a “pick two” kind of situation. Given that a hard break with EU trade policy has the biggest constituency, it seems likely that the other outcome will do nothing but accelerate the process of Irish unification.

wyldfire 6y ago

> From my perspective, Brexit has always seemed like an absolutely massive economic, political, and cultural self-own. I agree. But it's less humiliating than the MAGA and QAnon crowds' self-own.

loriverkutya 6y ago
Wait a few months and reevaluate this comment.
levidavidmurray 6y ago
1. No one was talking about the U.S. 2. "Yeah, but it's not as bad as X" doesn't help anyone
- wyldfire 6y ago
  1. You're right, I brought it up. I think it's ok/acceptable to compare/contrast these kinds of things among countries. 2. You're right, I'm wallowing in self-pity for my country's massive recent failures.
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  humiliation is just semantics here. the bigger picture is that it was the same forces and interests that were behind MAGA, Brexit, AfD/Germany, LePen/France, Orban/Hungary FPÖ/Austria, Northern-League/Italy, Geert-Wilders/NL, etc etc ... Many other (EU) countries that experienced a right-wing surge - and it wasn't an isolated problem of "the Brits (or Americans) had gone crazy". US politics were more visible (=no surprise: biggest Western country and also noisiest media and propaganda dressed up as entertainment). But to recall: S. Bannon and N. Farage meeting at the same venues, inviting each other to give talks and share ideas on strategy to turn the world Nazi (we have literally white power groups in my city who got inspired by these scumbags and followed them regardless of them being "foreigners"). Meanwhile we know from Panama Papers that Banks got funding from Russia to bankroll the UKIP campaign, the Austrian minister invited Putin to her wedding, German ex chancellor Schröder immediately joined the Gazprom board after exiting politics and was instrumental to secure Norstream2. Literally every individual or party in the above list has received funding from Russia to drive their right wing campaigns, all while Putin is sitting in a palace. Also it should be made clear that nobody (Putin or any other dictator) would have had the remotest chance of compromising and undermining politics if it wouldn't have been for the left and its incompetent self absorbed doctrine over the past 3 decades (and even after the 2008 financial crisis). So while nobody is helped by comparisons of who is off the worst we should remember that there is a whole structure behind this who see it as "fighting for their business interests". And while we're in the next months no doubt all tearing each other apart about this the real villains are at large and hiding behind the crumbling facade of our "democratic institutions". IMO acknowledging that this is a global problem that needs to be quashed no matter where we are is an important step in finding a cure.
jen20 6y ago
As a British supporter of the EU living in the USA - no it isn't, in the slightest. Indeed, the two are so intrinsically linked, it's best not to think of them as separate.

billyruffian 6y ago

> nobody who actually lived in London wanted Brexit to happen 40% of the London vote did[1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/912939/brexit-major-cities-vote-share/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/912939/brexit-major-citi...

jokethrowaway 6y ago
It wasn't politically correct to vote Brexit, so nobody mentioned it and just voted. I couldn't vote as a European in UK but I would have voted Leave. I'd take a business / economic hit over having a political end economic entity rule my country, especially one which contains countries that are ticking bombs with no hope to recover. No amount of austerity will fix Greece's and Italy's economies and there are no plans of reducing their gigantic governments. Varoufakis has been speaking for ages and nobody is listening.
- spzb 6y ago
  > I couldn't vote as a European in UK but I would have voted Leave. Thank God for that, as you seem to not understand any of the issues involved. Greece's problems relate to the Euro which the UK had opted out of. And the notion that some central EU interloper has invaded us and taken over our legislature is just fantasy put about by Little Englander and disaster capitalists.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    It’s fascinating how many of the Leave arguments, as much as they exist, either boil down to not understanding how the EU works, or blaming the EU for mistakes that the UK government made.
    - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
      https://youtu.be/rvYuoWyk8iU https://youtu.be/rvYuoWyk8iU : almost 40 years ago, Sir Humphrey explains the EEC(EU)..from Yes, Minister.
    - 6y ago

PicassoCTs 6y ago

Its the result of a large part of the population being -defacto- disconnected from any economic activity. Yes they receive unemployment benefits /social welfare. Often for generations - but this just is not enough. The mind knows you do not contribute to your community, even though your pot is full of food. Autarky rebellions like brexxit address this dependence on society needing a member. I find this psychological need not really catered for in UBI concepts.

ashtonkem 6y ago

I worked in Finance in 2016 & 2017, on the team that managed the trade & position store for the entire company. We kept a few big graphs up of the important statistics of the day, including total daily trades. Nobody thought much about Brexit because the traders knew that they wouldn’t be so foolish as to vote for it. The pandemonium once everyone realized the vote came back yes was unbelievable. We blew through the record number of trades by a factor of 2x. I thought I’d never see anything like it ... until November 2016.

qppo 6y ago

To me, there's an irony that the nationalist desire to sever Britain from the EU is the best way to hasten the dissolution of Great Britain. Now that Brexit is done with, reunification of Ireland and Scottish Independence are in the conversation. I'm also not British so I don't know how serious those conversations are. But the assured economic and political disaster of Brexit wasn't enough to stop that ridiculous idea, so who's to say the same won't happen to the marginally less ridiculous proposition to reunify Ireland and establish an independent Scotland for the first time in centuries?

ashtonkem 6y ago
It’s generally assumed that Irish unification will happen sometime this century. Demographic trends in Northern Ireland have been towards union with Ireland and away from remaining in the UK. Especially since Ireland is becoming less catholic, which was one of the bigger sources of trouble(s). The fact that NI has the right to call a referendum at will certainly makes this a likely outcome within the next half century or so. Brexit will probably accelerate this process, as it’s impossible for London to completely break with EU trade policy, not put up a tariff border between England and NI, and respect the Good Friday agreement. It’s a “pick two” kind of situation. Given that a hard break with EU trade policy has the biggest constituency, it seems likely that the other outcome will do nothing but accelerate the process of Irish unification.