6 ms·

Lodsys is coming after Android developers now

37 points by palebluedot 15y ago

nextparadigms 15y ago
I think either boycott or grouping together to sue them back is necessary. If they pay, other patent trolls will appear, and this will get a lot worse if they see making money like this over obvious patents like these is a viable way to make money.
- monochromatic 15y ago
  How does a boycott even work in the context of a patent troll who isn't producing anything?
  - dpcan 15y ago
    It will get Google and Apple's attention.
  - mikeryan 15y ago
    If you're not infringing the patent he can't sue you. But greater then that, these in-app purchase systems are generating revenues for the App Store vendors (Apple and Google). The hope is to get the weight of those companies (and their legal teams) behind these small developers. Lodsys is trying very hard to pick off the weak. They don't want to get in a fight with Apple and Google though its very quickly heading that way.
    - bad_user 15y ago
      If Loudsys is a patent troll by definition, all Apple/Google can do is to invalidate their patents, which is really hard and very unlikely. Boycotting also works if everybody would do it. How would that work when one developer is boycotting and his competition is not (lots of copycats in both stores).
      - mikeryan 15y ago
        all Apple/Google can do is to invalidate their patents Not entirely true Apple is a licensor of Lodsys's patents and claims their license covers their developers.
  - nooneelse 15y ago
    Spit-balling here, possibly drivel; feel free to call me out on absurdness. What about something like a "no software for you" blockade/lawsuit-wedge? Form a little body, have some rules on how someone gets declared a patent troll. Alongside that, have anti-patent-troll companies start including "if declared a PT by so-and-so body, your license to use this software is over" in click-through EULAs. Intended result being: anyone working for patent trolls can't use enough modern software to function effectively, and/or they open themselves up for counter-suit via their use of software without license.
    - noonespecial 15y ago
      I'd be stunned stupid if every copy of windows in whatever little back-office hole in the wall they work out of isn't pirated. They don't give a rip about your software or IP in general beyond gaming the system. If they cheat on the spirit of the law this egregiously, they probably cheat every other damn place as well.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- rbanffy 15y ago
  Better: don't form a large group, but bring up a hundred tiny lawsuits for them to defend against. Find a way to make their trolling prohibitively expensive, although it could be difficult, since Microsoft, Google and Apple have provided them with funding.
mschwar99 15y ago
I'm not seeing anything in the thread that verifies the title of this submission. Am I missing something? It looks to be people discussing the iOS episodes and patent trolls in general. Edit - Yup my fault, I zeroed in on the responses.
- woobar 15y ago
  Very first comment: "We recently implemented in-app purchases for our Android application and several weeks later we received a letter from Lodsys, claiming that we infringed on their patents."
- dpcan 15y ago
  The original poster recieved a letter after adding in-app purchases in his Android app.
- palebluedot 15y ago
  From the first post in the thread: "We recently implemented in-app purchases for our Android application and several weeks later we received a letter from Lodsys, claiming that we infringed on their patents." So, I suppose it is a just a sample of one, at this point - but I think it is enough to show that it is not strictly limited to iOS developers at this point. This is the first time I've heard of them coming after an Android developer for in-app purchases.
tzs 15y ago
Google has a license to the the Lodsys patents, so if developers are using some API for in-app purchased supplied by Google as part of Android I'd expect them to be protected the same way Apple developers are protected by Apple's license.
- dpcan 15y ago
  But it's not as if Lodsys doesn't know this. I doubt they'll say "oh, my bad" and walk away now. They have a reason for sending these letters to small dev shops, knowing full well Google and Apple have licensed their patents, and we really haven't seen what that reason is yet. What is really going on here????
  - DenisM 15y ago
    They are scaring developers to exert pressure on Apple and Google, to force them to negotiate and pay more. Or. They are demonstrating to another potential licensee that by paying more they can get better "protection". Potential clients would Microsoft, HP, and RIM. I can totally see Microsoft paying more to get more protection for "their" developers an then using the uncertainty to lure Apple's developers over to their side, because Microsoft have used patents in the past to similar purpose - create uncertainty around Linux, unless bought from their licensed partner Novell.
- uxp 15y ago
  Curious if you have a source of information that confirms that Google also has a license or agreement with either Lodsys or at least with Intellectual Ventures? Edit: nevermind. They claim that both Microsoft and Google are both licensed for "their nameplate products and services", but again state that 3rd parties are not licensed. So far no one has asked this, or speculated on it, but it’s a logical question for a business that has created applications on multiple platforms. _Google is licensed_ for its nameplate products and services. Also, _Microsoft is licensed_ for their nameplate products and services. http://www.lodsys.com/1/post/2011/05/q-what-about-other-operating-systems-such-as-android.html http://www.lodsys.com/1/post/2011/05/q-what-about-other-oper...
- r00fus 15y ago
shareme 15y ago
Folks some facts: -Lodsys is not the original owner of the patents IV is and it was IV that Google, Apple, and MS bought licenses from. -Lodsys was specifically formed to collect fees. Because Lodsys was not a party to previous licenses obviously it snot collecting fees from them. In other words Lodsys is playing the system hoping that small developers do not have the nerve to ask Apple and Google and MS what the heck is going on. You will notice that our very own FOSS patent FUdster recommended paying the fess, right despite only letters being sent? Its time for all developers to wake the eff up about software patents. And to our FOSS software patent FUDster, I think I speak for all when I state STFU.
- daeken 15y ago
  Who exactly is "our FOSS software patent FUDster", and why should he/she STFU? Shouldn't we as a community discuss these things, rather than dismissing them out of hand?
  - georgemcbay 15y ago
    FWIW, I'd assume he was talking about Florian Müller.
palebluedot 15y ago
Some more info here, including the developer name: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/patent_holding_firm_lodsys_goes_after_android_developer_for_use_of_in_app_payments.php http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/patent_holding_firm_lod... The developer is "Clapfoot Inc", and the game in question is "Tank Hero".

37 points by palebluedot 15y ago

I think either boycott or grouping together to sue them back is necessary. If they pay, other patent trolls will appear, and this will get a lot worse if they see making money like this over obvious patents like these is a viable way to make money.

monochromatic 15y ago
How does a boycott even work in the context of a patent troll who isn't producing anything?
- dpcan 15y ago
  It will get Google and Apple's attention.
- mikeryan 15y ago
  If you're not infringing the patent he can't sue you. But greater then that, these in-app purchase systems are generating revenues for the App Store vendors (Apple and Google). The hope is to get the weight of those companies (and their legal teams) behind these small developers. Lodsys is trying very hard to pick off the weak. They don't want to get in a fight with Apple and Google though its very quickly heading that way.
  - bad_user 15y ago
    If Loudsys is a patent troll by definition, all Apple/Google can do is to invalidate their patents, which is really hard and very unlikely. Boycotting also works if everybody would do it. How would that work when one developer is boycotting and his competition is not (lots of copycats in both stores).
    - mikeryan 15y ago
      all Apple/Google can do is to invalidate their patents Not entirely true Apple is a licensor of Lodsys's patents and claims their license covers their developers.
- nooneelse 15y ago
  Spit-balling here, possibly drivel; feel free to call me out on absurdness. What about something like a "no software for you" blockade/lawsuit-wedge? Form a little body, have some rules on how someone gets declared a patent troll. Alongside that, have anti-patent-troll companies start including "if declared a PT by so-and-so body, your license to use this software is over" in click-through EULAs. Intended result being: anyone working for patent trolls can't use enough modern software to function effectively, and/or they open themselves up for counter-suit via their use of software without license.
  - noonespecial 15y ago
    I'd be stunned stupid if every copy of windows in whatever little back-office hole in the wall they work out of isn't pirated. They don't give a rip about your software or IP in general beyond gaming the system. If they cheat on the spirit of the law this egregiously, they probably cheat every other damn place as well.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
rbanffy 15y ago
Better: don't form a large group, but bring up a hundred tiny lawsuits for them to defend against. Find a way to make their trolling prohibitively expensive, although it could be difficult, since Microsoft, Google and Apple have provided them with funding.

mschwar99 15y ago

I'm not seeing anything in the thread that verifies the title of this submission. Am I missing something? It looks to be people discussing the iOS episodes and patent trolls in general. Edit - Yup my fault, I zeroed in on the responses.

woobar 15y ago
Very first comment: "We recently implemented in-app purchases for our Android application and several weeks later we received a letter from Lodsys, claiming that we infringed on their patents."
dpcan 15y ago
The original poster recieved a letter after adding in-app purchases in his Android app.
palebluedot 15y ago
From the first post in the thread: "We recently implemented in-app purchases for our Android application and several weeks later we received a letter from Lodsys, claiming that we infringed on their patents." So, I suppose it is a just a sample of one, at this point - but I think it is enough to show that it is not strictly limited to iOS developers at this point. This is the first time I've heard of them coming after an Android developer for in-app purchases.

tzs 15y ago

Google has a license to the the Lodsys patents, so if developers are using some API for in-app purchased supplied by Google as part of Android I'd expect them to be protected the same way Apple developers are protected by Apple's license.

dpcan 15y ago
But it's not as if Lodsys doesn't know this. I doubt they'll say "oh, my bad" and walk away now. They have a reason for sending these letters to small dev shops, knowing full well Google and Apple have licensed their patents, and we really haven't seen what that reason is yet. What is really going on here????
- DenisM 15y ago
  They are scaring developers to exert pressure on Apple and Google, to force them to negotiate and pay more. Or. They are demonstrating to another potential licensee that by paying more they can get better "protection". Potential clients would Microsoft, HP, and RIM. I can totally see Microsoft paying more to get more protection for "their" developers an then using the uncertainty to lure Apple's developers over to their side, because Microsoft have used patents in the past to similar purpose - create uncertainty around Linux, unless bought from their licensed partner Novell.
uxp 15y ago
Curious if you have a source of information that confirms that Google also has a license or agreement with either Lodsys or at least with Intellectual Ventures? Edit: nevermind. They claim that both Microsoft and Google are both licensed for "their nameplate products and services", but again state that 3rd parties are not licensed. So far no one has asked this, or speculated on it, but it’s a logical question for a business that has created applications on multiple platforms. _Google is licensed_ for its nameplate products and services. Also, _Microsoft is licensed_ for their nameplate products and services. http://www.lodsys.com/1/post/2011/05/q-what-about-other-operating-systems-such-as-android.html http://www.lodsys.com/1/post/2011/05/q-what-about-other-oper...
r00fus 15y ago

shareme 15y ago

Folks some facts: -Lodsys is not the original owner of the patents IV is and it was IV that Google, Apple, and MS bought licenses from. -Lodsys was specifically formed to collect fees. Because Lodsys was not a party to previous licenses obviously it snot collecting fees from them. In other words Lodsys is playing the system hoping that small developers do not have the nerve to ask Apple and Google and MS what the heck is going on. You will notice that our very own FOSS patent FUdster recommended paying the fess, right despite only letters being sent? Its time for all developers to wake the eff up about software patents. And to our FOSS software patent FUDster, I think I speak for all when I state STFU.

daeken 15y ago
Who exactly is "our FOSS software patent FUDster", and why should he/she STFU? Shouldn't we as a community discuss these things, rather than dismissing them out of hand?
- georgemcbay 15y ago
  FWIW, I'd assume he was talking about Florian Müller.

palebluedot 15y ago

Some more info here, including the developer name: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/patent_holding_firm_lodsys_goes_after_android_developer_for_use_of_in_app_payments.php http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/patent_holding_firm_lod... The developer is "Clapfoot Inc", and the game in question is "Tank Hero".