8 ms·

Russell’s teapot doesn’t fit in this case. Paper ballots exist. Many were manually recounted (whether by optical scanner or by hand). Are there actually claims

by boulos 6y ago

Russell’s teapot doesn’t fit in this case. Paper ballots exist. Many were manually recounted (whether by optical scanner or by hand). Are there actually claims of miscounted votes that you feel were miscounted or incorrectly treated that you feel are verifiable? (And haven’t already been refuted via evidence)

ekianjo 6y ago
> . Many were manually recounted (whether by optical scanner or by hand). My understanding is that in several places the envelopes in which the ballots were sent were allegedly prone to irregularities and the ballots have been extracted anyway and the envelopes disposed of, so recounts would by default take in account faulty/incomplete ballots if this actually happened. (no idea if the claim is true, however)
- qwerty12345678 6y ago
  I forgot to touch on this in my reply...If what I mentioned in my reply did in fact occur, you now understand why "recounts" wouldn't make any difference.
- Thorrez 6y ago
  >envelopes disposed of Are envelopes generally involved? In the Antrim County dispute[1] it sounds like they use Image Cast Precinct (ICP) tabulators[2][3]. This[4] appears to be a video of one in use[5], and it doesn't seem to involve an envelope. If there's 100% mail-in voting then yes every ballot would have an envelope. But if there's any less than 100% then there will be less envelopes than ballots, so I'm not sure envelopes would be too useful for recounts. [1] https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/14/michigan-judge-allows-release-report-antrim-county-voting/6537394002/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/14/m... [2] https://www.michigan.gov/documents/ag/SOS_Benson_Response_Antrim_County_710474_7.pdf https://www.michigan.gov/documents/ag/SOS_Benson_Response_An... [3] https://www.9and10news.com/content/uploads/2020/12/Antrim_Michigan_Forensics_Report_121320_v2_REDACTED.pdf https://www.9and10news.com/content/uploads/2020/12/Antrim_Mi... [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4l3eKRJv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4l3eKRJv4 [5] https://verifiedvoting.org/election-system/dominion-imagecast-precinct/ https://verifiedvoting.org/election-system/dominion-imagecas...
throwaway32871 6y ago
Just FYI, some machines work as follows: * Scan in ballot * If there is an error in the ballot, send for adjudication * Original ballot gets lost (destroyed?) In one case, there is a clip of an official saying that they had a 60% adjudication rate which is concerning. Basically saying that 60% of votes were decided by people other than the voters.
- Thorrez 6y ago
  > * Original ballot gets lost (destroyed?) Do you have a source for that? Michigan's response in the Antrim County dispute (which I think you're referring to by "60% adjudication rate") seems to say the original hand marked ballots are retained: >Because voting tabulators in Michigan use hand marked, paper ballots, any alleged errors in tabulators can be caught during a hand recount, which any candidate could have requested in Antrim County. https://www.michigan.gov/documents/ag/SOS_Benson_Response_Antrim_County_710474_7.pdf https://www.michigan.gov/documents/ag/SOS_Benson_Response_An...

by boulos 6y ago

ekianjo 6y ago

> . Many were manually recounted (whether by optical scanner or by hand). My understanding is that in several places the envelopes in which the ballots were sent were allegedly prone to irregularities and the ballots have been extracted anyway and the envelopes disposed of, so recounts would by default take in account faulty/incomplete ballots if this actually happened. (no idea if the claim is true, however)

qwerty12345678 6y ago
I forgot to touch on this in my reply...If what I mentioned in my reply did in fact occur, you now understand why "recounts" wouldn't make any difference.
Thorrez 6y ago
>envelopes disposed of Are envelopes generally involved? In the Antrim County dispute[1] it sounds like they use Image Cast Precinct (ICP) tabulators[2][3]. This[4] appears to be a video of one in use[5], and it doesn't seem to involve an envelope. If there's 100% mail-in voting then yes every ballot would have an envelope. But if there's any less than 100% then there will be less envelopes than ballots, so I'm not sure envelopes would be too useful for recounts. [1] https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/14/michigan-judge-allows-release-report-antrim-county-voting/6537394002/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/14/m... [2] https://www.michigan.gov/documents/ag/SOS_Benson_Response_Antrim_County_710474_7.pdf https://www.michigan.gov/documents/ag/SOS_Benson_Response_An... [3] https://www.9and10news.com/content/uploads/2020/12/Antrim_Michigan_Forensics_Report_121320_v2_REDACTED.pdf https://www.9and10news.com/content/uploads/2020/12/Antrim_Mi... [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4l3eKRJv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4l3eKRJv4 [5] https://verifiedvoting.org/election-system/dominion-imagecast-precinct/ https://verifiedvoting.org/election-system/dominion-imagecas...

throwaway32871 6y ago

Just FYI, some machines work as follows: * Scan in ballot * If there is an error in the ballot, send for adjudication * Original ballot gets lost (destroyed?) In one case, there is a clip of an official saying that they had a 60% adjudication rate which is concerning. Basically saying that 60% of votes were decided by people other than the voters.

Thorrez 6y ago
> * Original ballot gets lost (destroyed?) Do you have a source for that? Michigan's response in the Antrim County dispute (which I think you're referring to by "60% adjudication rate") seems to say the original hand marked ballots are retained: >Because voting tabulators in Michigan use hand marked, paper ballots, any alleged errors in tabulators can be caught during a hand recount, which any candidate could have requested in Antrim County. https://www.michigan.gov/documents/ag/SOS_Benson_Response_Antrim_County_710474_7.pdf https://www.michigan.gov/documents/ag/SOS_Benson_Response_An...