5 ms·

Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evid

by dstola 6y ago

Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence. I feel that open sourcing their code would definitely do the trick. It is kinda baffling that something as important as an election is ran on closed-source proprietary codebase.

detaro 6y ago
And you think open-sourcing it would calm down the claims, and they wouldn't claim exactly the same + "well of course they didn't use the software they gave us the code for"?
swiley 6y ago
IMO: any database used for voting that doesn't always have monotonically increasing counts is questionable (regardless of what happened in 2020.)
- javagram 6y ago
  Any voting machine that doesn’t have printed paper ballots is questionable and should not be used. Dominion machines do, unfortunately there are a few non-swing states that have fully electronic voting still.
halfmatthalfcat 6y ago
The precedent this would set would be disastrous. Any bad actor could try to force a company to release IP to prove they aren't acting maliciously. We have the legal discovery process for a reason.
- dstola 6y ago
  My point is that unvetted IP/code shouldn't be used in democratically critical processes such as elections in the fist place, doing so increases the surface area of bad actors to act maliciously.
sv123 6y ago
Because you can't prove a negative?
ZuLuuuuuu 6y ago
Wasn't it already proven that the machines are not biased, by counting the votes by hand in Georgia and seeing that the results did not change?
alimw 6y ago
> Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased Well now they'll have to do exactly that in a courtroom. I can't think of a better place for it.
javagram 6y ago
> Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence. Why would their code matter? Far more important than the code is the paper ballot audit trail their machines produce. And that audit trail has been audited by multiple states, run by both Republicans and Democrats, after the election and found to be flawless. The machines counted properly. https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/historic_first_statewide_audit_of_paper_ballots_upholds_result_of_presidential_race https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/historic_first_statew...
- MisterBastahrd 6y ago
  It's also quite interesting that Democrats have tried multiple times in the past two Congresses to provide for election security laws, with mandatory paper ballots AND standard auditing, and yet Republicans refused to bring any of those bills to the floor in the Senate.
  - starik36 6y ago
    The situation will be reversed for the next 2 years. Just watch.
    - javagram 6y ago
      Democrats have already introduced a new election integrity bill providing funds for secure voting. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1/text?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22Hr1%22%5D%7D&r=1&s=2 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1/te... - Look for “Subtitle F—Promoting Accuracy, Integrity, And Security Through Voter-Verified Permanent Paper Ballot” Biden got 7 million more votes than Trump in 2020. Democrats are perfectly happy to spend even more money to “prove” their wins are real (although it’s actually mostly solid Republican states that use insecure voting machines that don’t have a paper trail and should be forced to upgrade).
      - starik36 6y ago
pm90 6y ago
There were manual recounts that returned the same results.
ardy42 6y ago
> Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence. All right dstola: For the purposes of argument, I accuse you of being a thief who has embezzled millions of dollars from some company you've worked for. Instead of suing me for defamation for my lie, why don't you just prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you didn't steal anything? Maybe you could open source your bank account data, and all your movements to show that you couldn't have opened any secret accounts? That's a ridiculous ask. The malicious accusation of embezzled is a lie that harmed you, and proving your innocence won't compensate you for the harm caused by that lie. These lawsuits are about the harm done to Dominion. Also, no analysis of any kind would ever satisfy the people who believe the 2020 election was marred by vote fraud. That belief isn't based on evidence, and massive amounts of evidence to the contrary hasn't convinced those people. There's no reason to think one more report would make any difference.
- dstola 6y ago
  > Maybe you could open source your bank account data, and all your movements to show that you couldn't have opened any secret accounts? That's a ridiculous ask. Actually, maybe not open source, but otherwise that is exactly what would happen should I be suspect of being a thief. No reason why dominion cannot show their source code to professional investigators to get their name cleared right? If they are so vocal about being innocent, why not do it?

by dstola 6y ago

detaro 6y ago

And you think open-sourcing it would calm down the claims, and they wouldn't claim exactly the same + "well of course they didn't use the software they gave us the code for"?

swiley 6y ago

IMO: any database used for voting that doesn't always have monotonically increasing counts is questionable (regardless of what happened in 2020.)

javagram 6y ago
Any voting machine that doesn’t have printed paper ballots is questionable and should not be used. Dominion machines do, unfortunately there are a few non-swing states that have fully electronic voting still.

halfmatthalfcat 6y ago

The precedent this would set would be disastrous. Any bad actor could try to force a company to release IP to prove they aren't acting maliciously. We have the legal discovery process for a reason.

dstola 6y ago
My point is that unvetted IP/code shouldn't be used in democratically critical processes such as elections in the fist place, doing so increases the surface area of bad actors to act maliciously.

sv123 6y ago

Because you can't prove a negative?

ZuLuuuuuu 6y ago

Wasn't it already proven that the machines are not biased, by counting the votes by hand in Georgia and seeing that the results did not change?

alimw 6y ago

> Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased Well now they'll have to do exactly that in a courtroom. I can't think of a better place for it.

javagram 6y ago

> Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence. Why would their code matter? Far more important than the code is the paper ballot audit trail their machines produce. And that audit trail has been audited by multiple states, run by both Republicans and Democrats, after the election and found to be flawless. The machines counted properly. https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/historic_first_statewide_audit_of_paper_ballots_upholds_result_of_presidential_race https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/historic_first_statew...

MisterBastahrd 6y ago
It's also quite interesting that Democrats have tried multiple times in the past two Congresses to provide for election security laws, with mandatory paper ballots AND standard auditing, and yet Republicans refused to bring any of those bills to the floor in the Senate.
- starik36 6y ago
  The situation will be reversed for the next 2 years. Just watch.
  - javagram 6y ago
    Democrats have already introduced a new election integrity bill providing funds for secure voting. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1/text?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22Hr1%22%5D%7D&r=1&s=2 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1/te... - Look for “Subtitle F—Promoting Accuracy, Integrity, And Security Through Voter-Verified Permanent Paper Ballot” Biden got 7 million more votes than Trump in 2020. Democrats are perfectly happy to spend even more money to “prove” their wins are real (although it’s actually mostly solid Republican states that use insecure voting machines that don’t have a paper trail and should be forced to upgrade).
    - starik36 6y ago

pm90 6y ago

There were manual recounts that returned the same results.

ardy42 6y ago

> Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence. All right dstola: For the purposes of argument, I accuse you of being a thief who has embezzled millions of dollars from some company you've worked for. Instead of suing me for defamation for my lie, why don't you just prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you didn't steal anything? Maybe you could open source your bank account data, and all your movements to show that you couldn't have opened any secret accounts? That's a ridiculous ask. The malicious accusation of embezzled is a lie that harmed you, and proving your innocence won't compensate you for the harm caused by that lie. These lawsuits are about the harm done to Dominion. Also, no analysis of any kind would ever satisfy the people who believe the 2020 election was marred by vote fraud. That belief isn't based on evidence, and massive amounts of evidence to the contrary hasn't convinced those people. There's no reason to think one more report would make any difference.

dstola 6y ago
> Maybe you could open source your bank account data, and all your movements to show that you couldn't have opened any secret accounts? That's a ridiculous ask. Actually, maybe not open source, but otherwise that is exactly what would happen should I be suspect of being a thief. No reason why dominion cannot show their source code to professional investigators to get their name cleared right? If they are so vocal about being innocent, why not do it?