4 ms·

That's only correlation, light brightness has nothing to do with myopia. It's more likely from looking at things farther away from the face outside so that ther

That's only correlation, light brightness has nothing to do with myopia. It's more likely from looking at things farther away from the face outside so that there is less light focused on the fovea.

mattjaynes 6y ago
"light brightness has nothing to do with myopia" - that's a big claim and will need some evidence to back it up, especially given the many studies that suggest otherwise. This is still a topic with many unknowns, but we have to follow the evidence as much as we can. Evidence should always beat data-free guesses.
- stevebmark 6y ago
  See my other replies. I also feel worried reading this, because it doesn't look like you've researched the subject, and I always worry about lack of understanding of myopia progression with people just talking about a subject they aren't familiar with.
oehtXRwMkIs 6y ago
Correlation does not imply causation but it does imply having something to do with the other. Your first sentence contradicts itself.
- dmoy 6y ago
  > Correlation does not imply causation but it does imply having something to do with the other Correlation does not imply having something to do with another. For example, in the first decade of the 21st century, spending on space exploration had a 99.8% correlation with a specific subset of suicides (hanging?).
  - oehtXRwMkIs 6y ago
    It depends on what you mean by "having something to do with the other" but I see what you mean. I should've assumed the more favorable interpretation of the comment I was replying to. Reminds me of the pirates and global warming correlation.
  - userulluipeste 6y ago
    "Correlation does not imply having something to do with another." By its very definition, "correlation" means exactly "a mutual relation": https://www.dictionary.com/browse/correlation https://www.dictionary.com/browse/correlation The example you're giving is called coincidence not correlation. There are times where words' etymologies loose their connection with their current meaning, but that is not the case here, where we have "con" meaning "together" + "relation", which is a logical construction agreeing with word's meaning.
    - dmoy 6y ago
      In the context of scientific research on myopia, we're pretty clearly talking about definition #3, not definition #1: > Statistics. the degree to which two or more attributes or measurements on the same group of elements show a tendency to vary together.
scsilver 6y ago
You can only see that far away if the light energy is that abundant.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  That's a pretty low amount of light, though. The sun doesn't even have to be above the horizon - Twilight, in different darknesses, exists. And you'll still be looking at things a bit further and the light isn't as concentrated. The amount of detail sometimes varies, but then again, fog will do that especially when it is bright.
ChuckMcM 6y ago
kind of, kind of not. To the extent that brightness contracts your pupil, and the depth of field available to your eye increases with smaller pupil size[1]. People with focus issues find they can always focus when the light is bright enough (assuming normally functioning pupils). So there are optical properties that are affected by bright light, and your eyes respond to that. What the mechanism is for affecting overall focus range of your eye? I would agree that is unstated/unknown. [1] Which, as a science project, is fun to demonstrate that a pin hole camera doesn't need a lens for this reason.
- stevebmark 6y ago
  Please do research on myopia progression. It's not unknown. This entire thread is full of people guessing at things they don't have any experience in.
  - ubercow13 6y ago
    A brief look at citations on Wikipedia seems to contradict everything you've said. Maybe you'd like to link some research?
    - stevebmark 6y ago
      Your reply is a good example. I haven't seen anyone in this HN post's comments talk about how myopia works. I legitimately do not understand why so few people know even the basics of myopia progression. All of these comments are, pun intended, the blind leading the blind. I especially don't understand it given how common myopia is and how important it is for parents to understand it for their children. ------ 1. Glasses that blur what's on peripheral vision https://abc11.com/amp/4176773/ https://abc11.com/amp/4176773/ > too much time spent in front of a screen confuses the eye, since everything is in focus. The eye keeps growing, leading to myopia. 2. Glasses to stop myopia are successful in multi-site trial https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/glasses-stop-myopia-are-successful-multi-site-trial https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/glasses-stop-myopia-are-success... Glasses with fogged edges prevent over focus: > What’s supposed to happen as your eye grows, is that things should begin to go out of focus in the periphery of your vision. That’s a signal for the eyes to stop growing. 3. Multifocal contact lenses slow myopia progression in children https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/multifocal-contact-lenses-slow-myopia-progression-children https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/multifo... > Animal studies have shown that focusing light in front of the retina cues the eye to slow growth. 4. Putting contact lenses on monkeys _causes_ myopia and removing them slows myopia growth https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-48009-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-48009-3 5. "How Atropine Eye Drops Can Slow Myopia Progression" https://www.myopiainstitute.com/eye-care/how-atropine-eye-drops-can-slow-myopia-progression https://www.myopiainstitute.com/eye-care/how-atropine-eye-dr... > Applying atropine eye drops dilates the pupils and temporarily paralyzes the focusing muscle inside the eye. It also relaxes the eyes’ focusing mechanisms. Your eye grows without your brain's involvement. Sharp focus on the back of the eye, especially in the periphery, tells the eye to grow longer because it's overfocusing. This leads to the worsening of myopia. Things that cause sharp focus on the retina and fovea: contacts, glasses, and holding things close to your face that keep everything in focus. This may be why being outside is correlated with slowing myopia progression, because you wont have things constantly in focus in your peripheral vision from it being close to you. I have a serious question: did you not come across any of this research? No one seems to have familiarity with these concepts in this HN thread. Did you see articles like these and skip over them? Or, maybe, were you only googling for myopia and sunlight, which is unlikely to return results like these?

That's only correlation, light brightness has nothing to do with myopia. It's more likely from looking at things farther away from the face outside so that there is less light focused on the fovea.

mattjaynes 6y ago

"light brightness has nothing to do with myopia" - that's a big claim and will need some evidence to back it up, especially given the many studies that suggest otherwise. This is still a topic with many unknowns, but we have to follow the evidence as much as we can. Evidence should always beat data-free guesses.

stevebmark 6y ago
See my other replies. I also feel worried reading this, because it doesn't look like you've researched the subject, and I always worry about lack of understanding of myopia progression with people just talking about a subject they aren't familiar with.

oehtXRwMkIs 6y ago

Correlation does not imply causation but it does imply having something to do with the other. Your first sentence contradicts itself.

dmoy 6y ago
> Correlation does not imply causation but it does imply having something to do with the other Correlation does not imply having something to do with another. For example, in the first decade of the 21st century, spending on space exploration had a 99.8% correlation with a specific subset of suicides (hanging?).
- oehtXRwMkIs 6y ago
  It depends on what you mean by "having something to do with the other" but I see what you mean. I should've assumed the more favorable interpretation of the comment I was replying to. Reminds me of the pirates and global warming correlation.
- userulluipeste 6y ago
  "Correlation does not imply having something to do with another." By its very definition, "correlation" means exactly "a mutual relation": https://www.dictionary.com/browse/correlation https://www.dictionary.com/browse/correlation The example you're giving is called coincidence not correlation. There are times where words' etymologies loose their connection with their current meaning, but that is not the case here, where we have "con" meaning "together" + "relation", which is a logical construction agreeing with word's meaning.
  - dmoy 6y ago
    In the context of scientific research on myopia, we're pretty clearly talking about definition #3, not definition #1: > Statistics. the degree to which two or more attributes or measurements on the same group of elements show a tendency to vary together.

scsilver 6y ago

You can only see that far away if the light energy is that abundant.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago
That's a pretty low amount of light, though. The sun doesn't even have to be above the horizon - Twilight, in different darknesses, exists. And you'll still be looking at things a bit further and the light isn't as concentrated. The amount of detail sometimes varies, but then again, fog will do that especially when it is bright.

ChuckMcM 6y ago

kind of, kind of not. To the extent that brightness contracts your pupil, and the depth of field available to your eye increases with smaller pupil size[1]. People with focus issues find they can always focus when the light is bright enough (assuming normally functioning pupils). So there are optical properties that are affected by bright light, and your eyes respond to that. What the mechanism is for affecting overall focus range of your eye? I would agree that is unstated/unknown. [1] Which, as a science project, is fun to demonstrate that a pin hole camera doesn't need a lens for this reason.

stevebmark 6y ago
Please do research on myopia progression. It's not unknown. This entire thread is full of people guessing at things they don't have any experience in.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  A brief look at citations on Wikipedia seems to contradict everything you've said. Maybe you'd like to link some research?
  - stevebmark 6y ago
    Your reply is a good example. I haven't seen anyone in this HN post's comments talk about how myopia works. I legitimately do not understand why so few people know even the basics of myopia progression. All of these comments are, pun intended, the blind leading the blind. I especially don't understand it given how common myopia is and how important it is for parents to understand it for their children. ------ 1. Glasses that blur what's on peripheral vision https://abc11.com/amp/4176773/ https://abc11.com/amp/4176773/ > too much time spent in front of a screen confuses the eye, since everything is in focus. The eye keeps growing, leading to myopia. 2. Glasses to stop myopia are successful in multi-site trial https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/glasses-stop-myopia-are-successful-multi-site-trial https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/glasses-stop-myopia-are-success... Glasses with fogged edges prevent over focus: > What’s supposed to happen as your eye grows, is that things should begin to go out of focus in the periphery of your vision. That’s a signal for the eyes to stop growing. 3. Multifocal contact lenses slow myopia progression in children https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/multifocal-contact-lenses-slow-myopia-progression-children https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/multifo... > Animal studies have shown that focusing light in front of the retina cues the eye to slow growth. 4. Putting contact lenses on monkeys _causes_ myopia and removing them slows myopia growth https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-48009-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-48009-3 5. "How Atropine Eye Drops Can Slow Myopia Progression" https://www.myopiainstitute.com/eye-care/how-atropine-eye-drops-can-slow-myopia-progression https://www.myopiainstitute.com/eye-care/how-atropine-eye-dr... > Applying atropine eye drops dilates the pupils and temporarily paralyzes the focusing muscle inside the eye. It also relaxes the eyes’ focusing mechanisms. Your eye grows without your brain's involvement. Sharp focus on the back of the eye, especially in the periphery, tells the eye to grow longer because it's overfocusing. This leads to the worsening of myopia. Things that cause sharp focus on the retina and fovea: contacts, glasses, and holding things close to your face that keep everything in focus. This may be why being outside is correlated with slowing myopia progression, because you wont have things constantly in focus in your peripheral vision from it being close to you. I have a serious question: did you not come across any of this research? No one seems to have familiarity with these concepts in this HN thread. Did you see articles like these and skip over them? Or, maybe, were you only googling for myopia and sunlight, which is unlikely to return results like these?