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> Consensus is the enemy of understanding. For topics where there is conflicting or poor evidence or that bear on the culture war, I do not want people voting o

by ardy42 6y ago

> Consensus is the enemy of understanding. For topics where there is conflicting or poor evidence or that bear on the culture war, I do not want people voting on what is the consensus truth. I want to see all the evidence. That's a nice sentiment in a vacuum, but we're not in a vacuum. It's sort of like focusing on getting every child a college education when you can't even manage to teach them all literacy yet. At the point, I feel like the priority needs to be around figuring out a way to defeat disinformation and misinformation to restore some kind of common ground understanding of the facts. The marketplace of ideas can't function if major factions reject truth-seeking in favor of blatant lies that are appealing for various other reasons (e.g. emotional satisfaction, ability to manipulate others, etc.).

offby37years 6y ago
Groups search for consensus, individuals for truth. Without consensus groups fracture. Without truth we're destined for the next dark age.
nailer 6y ago
No. Truth does not flow from consensus like a college degree follows from literacy.
vorpalhex 6y ago
We can all agree that chocolate is the best form of ice cream. Those who would disagree are obviously trolls spreading disinformation. The marketplace of ice cream can't function if we have other flavors like pistachio or strawberry being labeled "best" instead of the only truely best ice cream. Obviously these strawberry promoters are just manipulating other gullible ice cream consumers for their own ends.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > We can all agree that chocolate is the best form of ice cream. Those who would disagree are obviously trolls spreading disinformation. The marketplace of ice cream can't function if we have other flavors like pistachio or strawberry being labeled "best" instead of the only truely best ice cream. Obviously these strawberry promoters are just manipulating other gullible ice cream consumers for their own ends. You're confusing preferences and facts. I was talking about facts [1], you're talking about preferences. [1] like Donald Trump is not waging a secret war to defeat a conspiracy of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who harvest a (fictitious) drug from trafficked children and Trump lost the 2020 election fairly.
bnralt 6y ago
> The marketplace of ideas can't function if major factions reject truth-seeking in favor of blatant lies that are appealing for various other reasons (e.g. emotional satisfaction, ability to manipulate others, etc.). The problem always becomes that few think their faction has this problem. Most people think that they and their side believe in the truth, and that the other side is peddling false information. In such an environment, "combating misinformation" inevitably becomes "trying to get everyone to agree with me." In order to combat misinformation we'd probably have to start by combating the emotional commitment we hold to a certain narrative before we even examine all of the facts. That's not easy to do, but I imagine a good first step would be to cut out the constant 24/7 news cycle that a lot of people are addicted to and that seems to feed into these emotions. Twitter, of course, is a large source of this stuff. Getting away from the news is an excellent way to start thinking more clearly.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > The problem always becomes that few think their faction has this problem. Most people think that they and their side believe in the truth, and that the other side is peddling false information. In such an environment, "combating misinformation" inevitably becomes "trying to get everyone to agree with me." The problem with your line of thinking is that it assumes good faith and a certain amount of competence, which are assumptions that I don't think we can reasonably make anymore in light of the insane success of things like QAnon and "Stop the Steal."

by ardy42 6y ago

offby37years 6y ago

Groups search for consensus, individuals for truth. Without consensus groups fracture. Without truth we're destined for the next dark age.

nailer 6y ago

No. Truth does not flow from consensus like a college degree follows from literacy.

vorpalhex 6y ago

We can all agree that chocolate is the best form of ice cream. Those who would disagree are obviously trolls spreading disinformation. The marketplace of ice cream can't function if we have other flavors like pistachio or strawberry being labeled "best" instead of the only truely best ice cream. Obviously these strawberry promoters are just manipulating other gullible ice cream consumers for their own ends.

ardy42 6y ago
> We can all agree that chocolate is the best form of ice cream. Those who would disagree are obviously trolls spreading disinformation. The marketplace of ice cream can't function if we have other flavors like pistachio or strawberry being labeled "best" instead of the only truely best ice cream. Obviously these strawberry promoters are just manipulating other gullible ice cream consumers for their own ends. You're confusing preferences and facts. I was talking about facts [1], you're talking about preferences. [1] like Donald Trump is not waging a secret war to defeat a conspiracy of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who harvest a (fictitious) drug from trafficked children and Trump lost the 2020 election fairly.

bnralt 6y ago

> The marketplace of ideas can't function if major factions reject truth-seeking in favor of blatant lies that are appealing for various other reasons (e.g. emotional satisfaction, ability to manipulate others, etc.). The problem always becomes that few think their faction has this problem. Most people think that they and their side believe in the truth, and that the other side is peddling false information. In such an environment, "combating misinformation" inevitably becomes "trying to get everyone to agree with me." In order to combat misinformation we'd probably have to start by combating the emotional commitment we hold to a certain narrative before we even examine all of the facts. That's not easy to do, but I imagine a good first step would be to cut out the constant 24/7 news cycle that a lot of people are addicted to and that seems to feed into these emotions. Twitter, of course, is a large source of this stuff. Getting away from the news is an excellent way to start thinking more clearly.

ardy42 6y ago
> The problem always becomes that few think their faction has this problem. Most people think that they and their side believe in the truth, and that the other side is peddling false information. In such an environment, "combating misinformation" inevitably becomes "trying to get everyone to agree with me." The problem with your line of thinking is that it assumes good faith and a certain amount of competence, which are assumptions that I don't think we can reasonably make anymore in light of the insane success of things like QAnon and "Stop the Steal."