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ASS subtitles are particularly popular in anime fansubbing as it allows for advanced typesetting. You can take it pretty far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U

by Hamuko 6y ago

ASS subtitles are particularly popular in anime fansubbing as it allows for advanced typesetting. You can take it pretty far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9AgMlHJe7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9AgMlHJe7Y

fastball 6y ago
Potentially NSFW (heh this is kinda pointless atm). Also wow, I'm guessing you need to adjust the subtitle with every frame, old-school animation style?
- Hamuko 6y ago
  The subtitles are basically adjusted every frame but you don't necessarily have to do it by hand. You can for example generate motion data with Blender or Mocha and import that into Aegisub (the software that is used to create the subtitle files). https://unanimated.github.io/ts/ts-mocha.htm https://unanimated.github.io/ts/ts-mocha.htm https://github.com/TypesettingTools/Aegisub-Motion/wiki/Applying-Data https://github.com/TypesettingTools/Aegisub-Motion/wiki/Appl...
- throwaway314158 6y ago
  Before newer tools automated the process by tracking motion of a target, folks wouldn't have to adjust them frame by frame per se but would instead annotate the subtitle script with keyframe times and positions. The video player would know to interpolate between those annotations.
- veddan 6y ago
  The ASS format has some basic animation with the \move command (moving subtitles using linear interpolation) and the \t command (changing various properties of a line with the possibility of quadric interpolation). This takes care of some cases, but is often insufficient for complex stuff. Aegisub however has good automation support, and has (had?) a pretty active scripting community. Scripts can do a lot of stuff and often has simple dialog-box UIs. The base scripting support is in Lua, but a lot of scripts are written in a Lua variant called Moonscript. I've never seen it used anywhere else. And, as was mentioned in a sibling comment, there are scripts for importing motion-tracking files into Aegisub. The ASS format lacks support for a bunch of stuff that people want to do, or the native support is deficient in some manner, so scripting is very important for Aegisub. For example, a line can be given a color gradient by make a one copy of the line for each shade in the gradient (this can be 100+ times). Each copy is then given a different color according to the gradient, and a \clip command is used on each line to only show a 1-2 pixel wide slice of each line. If all those slices are lined up properly and the lines are displayed simultaneously, it gives the impression of being a single line with a color gradient. Tricks like this can actually cause performance problems in rendering the subtitles! I think this is an interesting little programming niche, but there isn't much complex typesetting being done these days. Tastes have changed, and due to licensed releases there's less need for fansubbing on all but the most niche titles.
Blikkentrekker 6y ago
So the translated “fidget” parts are not hardsubbed but actually encoded in a subtitle format and therein animated to move around with the Japanese text? Quite impressive, notwithstanding the use of bourgeois harem as example material.
- throwaway314158 6y ago
  Yup. Recently there have been tools that will track selected things for you, but it wasn't too long ago when fansubbers had to manually animate them by annotating keyframes.
- mlindner 6y ago
  That's correct.
ulucs 6y ago
Commie should be a national treasure
jsheard 6y ago
I just watched a fansub recently where they replaced some environmental text in the background, and they used the ASS format to render the english text out of focus and seamlessly match the depth-of-field effect used in the show. Some groups really go above and beyond.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  Definitely. For example, MTBB's subtitles for Kimi no Na wa are very impressive. There's a short showcase of them on YouTube (spoilers): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_c-eKTisI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_c-eKTisI0 It's a shame you basically cannot get anything close to the quality of fansubs from any commercial/legal options.
  - novok 6y ago
    Probably because they are forced to use really shitty subbing formats for assisted text in some compliance format :| Edit: Are those baked into the video or did they just use the ASS format?
    - Lammy 6y ago
      Even the old-school analog EIA-608 captioning system can do positional captions. It's all these modern web players (like Youtube's) that have regressed to a single line of text bottom-center.
      - jowsie 6y ago
        You can definitely still do some interesting things with YouTube subtitles; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqqGOvOGfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqqGOvOGfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvO8kcWFFT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvO8kcWFFT0
      - erk__ 6y ago
        YouTube actually supports it through a feature called WebVTT [0], though it is rarely used, an example of it is this video [1] where it is used for placement and lighting up text for karaoke. The actual code for it is looks like this: 00:03:31.485 --> 00:03:31.719 align:start position:0% line:0% <c.color96D2D3>Hey! nanika ga okoru spe cial </c><c.colorFEFEFE>night</c> 00:03:31.485 --> 00:03:31.719 align:start position:0% line:0% <c.color96D2D3>Hey! nanika ga okoru spe cial </c><c.colorFEFEFE>night</c> 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:32.486 align:start position:0% line:0% <c.color96D2D3>Hey! nanika ga okoru special night</c> 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:32.486 align:start position:0% line:0% <c.color96D2D3>Hey! nanika ga okoru special night</c> [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebVTT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebVTT [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AufydOsiD6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AufydOsiD6M
mlindner 6y ago
Warning: NSFW for those clicking this
astrange 6y ago
> ASS subtitles are particularly popular in anime fansubbing as it allows for advanced typesetting. Those are just "SSA" subtitles. The difference mattered (ASS was an "Advanced SSA") once but now people just call it "ASS" as a joke. So Google is sort-of right, he could leave it out of the description. I doubt this guy knows this since it's impossible he implemented SSA on his own due to how complex it is.
Arnavion 6y ago
(Shameless plug for an abandoned project.) If you want to try out the ASS format for yourself in the comfort of your web browser: https://arnavion.github.io/libjass/demo/ https://arnavion.github.io/libjass/demo/

by Hamuko 6y ago

fastball 6y ago

Potentially NSFW (heh this is kinda pointless atm). Also wow, I'm guessing you need to adjust the subtitle with every frame, old-school animation style?

Hamuko 6y ago
The subtitles are basically adjusted every frame but you don't necessarily have to do it by hand. You can for example generate motion data with Blender or Mocha and import that into Aegisub (the software that is used to create the subtitle files). https://unanimated.github.io/ts/ts-mocha.htm https://unanimated.github.io/ts/ts-mocha.htm https://github.com/TypesettingTools/Aegisub-Motion/wiki/Applying-Data https://github.com/TypesettingTools/Aegisub-Motion/wiki/Appl...
throwaway314158 6y ago
Before newer tools automated the process by tracking motion of a target, folks wouldn't have to adjust them frame by frame per se but would instead annotate the subtitle script with keyframe times and positions. The video player would know to interpolate between those annotations.
veddan 6y ago
The ASS format has some basic animation with the \move command (moving subtitles using linear interpolation) and the \t command (changing various properties of a line with the possibility of quadric interpolation). This takes care of some cases, but is often insufficient for complex stuff. Aegisub however has good automation support, and has (had?) a pretty active scripting community. Scripts can do a lot of stuff and often has simple dialog-box UIs. The base scripting support is in Lua, but a lot of scripts are written in a Lua variant called Moonscript. I've never seen it used anywhere else. And, as was mentioned in a sibling comment, there are scripts for importing motion-tracking files into Aegisub. The ASS format lacks support for a bunch of stuff that people want to do, or the native support is deficient in some manner, so scripting is very important for Aegisub. For example, a line can be given a color gradient by make a one copy of the line for each shade in the gradient (this can be 100+ times). Each copy is then given a different color according to the gradient, and a \clip command is used on each line to only show a 1-2 pixel wide slice of each line. If all those slices are lined up properly and the lines are displayed simultaneously, it gives the impression of being a single line with a color gradient. Tricks like this can actually cause performance problems in rendering the subtitles! I think this is an interesting little programming niche, but there isn't much complex typesetting being done these days. Tastes have changed, and due to licensed releases there's less need for fansubbing on all but the most niche titles.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago

So the translated “fidget” parts are not hardsubbed but actually encoded in a subtitle format and therein animated to move around with the Japanese text? Quite impressive, notwithstanding the use of bourgeois harem as example material.

throwaway314158 6y ago
Yup. Recently there have been tools that will track selected things for you, but it wasn't too long ago when fansubbers had to manually animate them by annotating keyframes.
mlindner 6y ago
That's correct.

ulucs 6y ago

Commie should be a national treasure

jsheard 6y ago

I just watched a fansub recently where they replaced some environmental text in the background, and they used the ASS format to render the english text out of focus and seamlessly match the depth-of-field effect used in the show. Some groups really go above and beyond.

Hamuko 6y ago
Definitely. For example, MTBB's subtitles for Kimi no Na wa are very impressive. There's a short showcase of them on YouTube (spoilers): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_c-eKTisI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_c-eKTisI0 It's a shame you basically cannot get anything close to the quality of fansubs from any commercial/legal options.
- novok 6y ago
  Probably because they are forced to use really shitty subbing formats for assisted text in some compliance format :| Edit: Are those baked into the video or did they just use the ASS format?
  - Lammy 6y ago
    Even the old-school analog EIA-608 captioning system can do positional captions. It's all these modern web players (like Youtube's) that have regressed to a single line of text bottom-center.
    - jowsie 6y ago
      You can definitely still do some interesting things with YouTube subtitles; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqqGOvOGfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqqGOvOGfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvO8kcWFFT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvO8kcWFFT0
    - erk__ 6y ago
      YouTube actually supports it through a feature called WebVTT [0], though it is rarely used, an example of it is this video [1] where it is used for placement and lighting up text for karaoke. The actual code for it is looks like this: 00:03:31.485 --> 00:03:31.719 align:start position:0% line:0% <c.color96D2D3>Hey! nanika ga okoru spe cial </c><c.colorFEFEFE>night</c> 00:03:31.485 --> 00:03:31.719 align:start position:0% line:0% <c.color96D2D3>Hey! nanika ga okoru spe cial </c><c.colorFEFEFE>night</c> 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:32.486 align:start position:0% line:0% <c.color96D2D3>Hey! nanika ga okoru special night</c> 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:32.486 align:start position:0% line:0% <c.color96D2D3>Hey! nanika ga okoru special night</c> [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebVTT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebVTT [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AufydOsiD6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AufydOsiD6M

mlindner 6y ago

Warning: NSFW for those clicking this

astrange 6y ago

> ASS subtitles are particularly popular in anime fansubbing as it allows for advanced typesetting. Those are just "SSA" subtitles. The difference mattered (ASS was an "Advanced SSA") once but now people just call it "ASS" as a joke. So Google is sort-of right, he could leave it out of the description. I doubt this guy knows this since it's impossible he implemented SSA on his own due to how complex it is.

Arnavion 6y ago

(Shameless plug for an abandoned project.) If you want to try out the ASS format for yourself in the comfort of your web browser: https://arnavion.github.io/libjass/demo/ https://arnavion.github.io/libjass/demo/