4 ms·

You're being downvoted, but you hit the nail on the head. I feel like for people of my vintage (born in the early 80s) the whole war on terror was extremely ca

You're being downvoted, but you hit the nail on the head. I feel like for people of my vintage (born in the early 80s) the whole war on terror was extremely caustic to my generational cohort. It was a weird environment where every trusted institution in society lined-up in support of both wars, and then actively worked to sideline any debate and discussion. The Dixie Chicks got infamously cancelled for saying something completely milquetoast against the Bush and the war. And just as we thought we were turning a corner on the War on Terror the financial crash of 2008 hit. Here, it was another highly regarded institution: finance. Young people might not remember this, but finance used to be the industry you would track into if you were a high achieving member of the intelligentsia. The industry was viewed as being staffed to the gills with the best-and-brightest and was afforded anodyne coverage from the establishment media. So naturally, when they imploded the country and then went on TV and blamed it on losers with mortgages[1], and proceeded to face zero real consequences because the justice system never bothered putting laws in place to protect regular people and felt such actions would "punish people for taking risks" (which as an aside: if you are just externalizing risk to 3rd parties you aren't actually "encouraging people to take risks") It's a trope, but social trust has been eroded because people feel like there's basically "meritocratic" caste system in this country: if you go to the right school, get into the right industry, and make enough money you are granted a measure of impunity when you externalize harm that you quite frankly shouldn't have. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-Jw-5Kx8k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-Jw-5Kx8k

mcguire 6y ago
"Young people might not remember this, but finance used to be the industry you would track into if you were a high achieving member of the intelligentsia. The industry was viewed as being staffed to the gills with the best-and-brightest and was afforded anodyne coverage from the establishment media." Speaking as someone who was born before the 80s, my perception is that you have misread this situation. The rise of finance was a consequence of the "greed is good" 80s, which meant that disproportionate rewards went to financial industries, which was both a cause and a consequence of the collapse of every other career open to the intelligentsia. You see a similar situation on a smaller scale in the rise of Silicon Valley's start up culture, where that is seen as the most valid or only career choice in spite of asymptotically levelling benefits. The demonstration that "the best and brightest" operating open loop without regulation leads to spectacular busts is left as an exercise to the reader.
- pnutjam 6y ago
  You are correct, grab any of the excellent financial history books written by Frederick Lewis Allen. People assume things that have not existed very long have always existed.
- mikem170 6y ago
  Could it have been the other way around, where the rise of finance industries caused the "greed is good" 80s? I've assume that Nixon taking the U.S. off the gold standard precipitated the growth in the finance industry, the government needs banks to grow money supply and debt, right? "Greed is good" may have just been an add campaign designed to justify what was already happening, a frenzy of finance, consumerism, and debt that has not stopped yet.
PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
>there's basically "meritocratic" caste system in this country: if you go to the right school, get into the right industry, and make enough money you are [ ... ] This is a description of the absolute opposite of what "meritocratic" means.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > This is a description of the absolute opposite of what “meritocratic” means. Well, its actually exactly what the use that brought “meritocracy” into the common lexicon was referring to, though that use was satirical.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    No, "meritocracy" was brought into the common lexicon in the 1960s, specifically as an alternative to existing forms of social structure. A system where it did not matter which school you went to, in particular. I do not read the GP as being satirical in their use, although the use of quotes makes it somewhat unclear.
    - mrwh 6y ago
      Well, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy absolutely is satire (or rather, satire used to serious effect). But it's true that this was very quickly forgotten.
    - robocat 6y ago
      No. dragonwriter is referencing the original history of the word. The author Michael Young who coined the word in 1958 was using it in his book to show everything wrong with a “merit” based system, as he explains here: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment This gives a good background: https://kottke.org/17/03/the-satirical-origins-of-the-meritocracy https://kottke.org/17/03/the-satirical-origins-of-the-merito...
pnutjam 6y ago
War on Drugs started it, but the War on Terror accelerated it. The GOP misinformation campaign is finishing it off... Realistically, this is just a reversion to things in the early 20th century. The system of trust we've built up is only about 50 or 60 years old, and it's decayed as people took it for granted. Hopefully we're noticing it now.
refurb 6y ago
Finance was slimy as hell long before 2008. People like to think they live in unique times, but they don’t.

mcguire 6y ago

"Young people might not remember this, but finance used to be the industry you would track into if you were a high achieving member of the intelligentsia. The industry was viewed as being staffed to the gills with the best-and-brightest and was afforded anodyne coverage from the establishment media." Speaking as someone who was born before the 80s, my perception is that you have misread this situation. The rise of finance was a consequence of the "greed is good" 80s, which meant that disproportionate rewards went to financial industries, which was both a cause and a consequence of the collapse of every other career open to the intelligentsia. You see a similar situation on a smaller scale in the rise of Silicon Valley's start up culture, where that is seen as the most valid or only career choice in spite of asymptotically levelling benefits. The demonstration that "the best and brightest" operating open loop without regulation leads to spectacular busts is left as an exercise to the reader.

pnutjam 6y ago
You are correct, grab any of the excellent financial history books written by Frederick Lewis Allen. People assume things that have not existed very long have always existed.
mikem170 6y ago
Could it have been the other way around, where the rise of finance industries caused the "greed is good" 80s? I've assume that Nixon taking the U.S. off the gold standard precipitated the growth in the finance industry, the government needs banks to grow money supply and debt, right? "Greed is good" may have just been an add campaign designed to justify what was already happening, a frenzy of finance, consumerism, and debt that has not stopped yet.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago

>there's basically "meritocratic" caste system in this country: if you go to the right school, get into the right industry, and make enough money you are [ ... ] This is a description of the absolute opposite of what "meritocratic" means.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> This is a description of the absolute opposite of what “meritocratic” means. Well, its actually exactly what the use that brought “meritocracy” into the common lexicon was referring to, though that use was satirical.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  No, "meritocracy" was brought into the common lexicon in the 1960s, specifically as an alternative to existing forms of social structure. A system where it did not matter which school you went to, in particular. I do not read the GP as being satirical in their use, although the use of quotes makes it somewhat unclear.
  - mrwh 6y ago
    Well, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy absolutely is satire (or rather, satire used to serious effect). But it's true that this was very quickly forgotten.
  - robocat 6y ago
    No. dragonwriter is referencing the original history of the word. The author Michael Young who coined the word in 1958 was using it in his book to show everything wrong with a “merit” based system, as he explains here: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment This gives a good background: https://kottke.org/17/03/the-satirical-origins-of-the-meritocracy https://kottke.org/17/03/the-satirical-origins-of-the-merito...

pnutjam 6y ago

War on Drugs started it, but the War on Terror accelerated it. The GOP misinformation campaign is finishing it off... Realistically, this is just a reversion to things in the early 20th century. The system of trust we've built up is only about 50 or 60 years old, and it's decayed as people took it for granted. Hopefully we're noticing it now.

refurb 6y ago

Finance was slimy as hell long before 2008. People like to think they live in unique times, but they don’t.