6 ms·

I agree with the sentiment but based on the text of the ruling, I can't agree with the ruling itself [0]. Missing from your summary is: - "The applicant, Viole

by Youden 6y ago

I agree with the sentiment but based on the text of the ruling, I can't agree with the ruling itself [0]. Missing from your summary is: - "The applicant, Violeta-Sibianca Lăcătuş, is a Romanian national who was born in 1992 and lives in Bistrita-Nasaud (Romania)." - "In 2011 Ms Lăcătuş, who was unable to find work, began asking for charity in Geneva." Why was somebody who "lives in" Romania begging in Geneva? Would she not have received social benefits in Romania? This looks like a perverse kind of tourism. Refugees and asylum seekers I can understand but Romania isn't a warzone or dictatorship, it's an EU member state. And I think "decriminalizes begging" is a bit hyperbolic. The court did set some precedent but they were also clear that a critical factor in the ruling was that this woman was in a situation where she genuinely needed to beg in order to survive. [0]: https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/app/conversion/pdf/?library=ECHR&id=003-6910043-9279633&filename=Judgment%20Lacatus%20v.%20Switzerland%20-%20sanction%20imposed%20for%20begging%20on%20the%20public%20highway%20violated%20the%20Convention.pdf https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/app/conversion/pdf/?library=ECHR&...

GekkePrutser 6y ago
> Why was somebody who "lives in" Romania begging in Geneva? Would she not have received social benefits in Romania? This looks like a perverse kind of tourism. Refugees and asylum seekers I can understand but Romania isn't a warzone or dictatorship, it's an EU member state. Social benefits in Romania are miserable compared to other EU countries. And cost of living in the cities is going up due to business booming. I've seen families with kids sleep on the streets there. It's really sad. A well educated retired teacher who was begging in Bucharest whom I spoke to for an hour explained it to me. She was very smart and well aware of world politics (and excellent English) but she just couldn't make ends meet. Definitely not an alcoholic or someone 'who doesn't care enough to get a job'. It's the old people that are really in trouble as they lack the skills to work in this modern world and their pensions apparently are worse than in the communist days (taking rent increases / cost of living inflation into account). Many jobs were moved from public sector to private and their pensions evaporated as a result. Having said that, the young people do really well in Romania, they get good education and all the chances they need. Business is booming especially callcenters because Romanians generally excel at languages. I wish the EU would start imposing minimum standards to welfare because the old generation there is really getting left behind. I saw people in the flat beside our fancy office who had no windows but just plastic bags hanging in their flat, in -15 C. While outside the Audi's and BMWs from the upper class queue up and the young people are the new middle class, the old are just watching it all pass them by. The gains of the new system aren't divided fairly. I'm surprised this 28-year-old needed to beg though, their age group have the best chances.
hypertele-Xii 6y ago
I met an elder romanian begger couple and they told me that EU rights don't matter for them. In practice they simply cannot receive the benefits they are entitled to at home, because they are of some kind of discriminated against minority (gypsies or something).
blub 6y ago
Western European countries seem to be completely incompetent at deporting people. Illegal immigrants, terrorists, criminals, they fail to deport almost everyone.
- kaybe 6y ago
  I don't think you can simply deport EU member citizens from a EU state. From what I can understand at first glance it is only possible when the citizen has been sentenced for a heavy crime. edit: Of course Geneva is not in the EU, but in many aspects the situation is similar.
  - blub 6y ago
    They (we) can't even deport non-EU citizens!

by Youden 6y ago

GekkePrutser 6y ago

> Why was somebody who "lives in" Romania begging in Geneva? Would she not have received social benefits in Romania? This looks like a perverse kind of tourism. Refugees and asylum seekers I can understand but Romania isn't a warzone or dictatorship, it's an EU member state. Social benefits in Romania are miserable compared to other EU countries. And cost of living in the cities is going up due to business booming. I've seen families with kids sleep on the streets there. It's really sad. A well educated retired teacher who was begging in Bucharest whom I spoke to for an hour explained it to me. She was very smart and well aware of world politics (and excellent English) but she just couldn't make ends meet. Definitely not an alcoholic or someone 'who doesn't care enough to get a job'. It's the old people that are really in trouble as they lack the skills to work in this modern world and their pensions apparently are worse than in the communist days (taking rent increases / cost of living inflation into account). Many jobs were moved from public sector to private and their pensions evaporated as a result. Having said that, the young people do really well in Romania, they get good education and all the chances they need. Business is booming especially callcenters because Romanians generally excel at languages. I wish the EU would start imposing minimum standards to welfare because the old generation there is really getting left behind. I saw people in the flat beside our fancy office who had no windows but just plastic bags hanging in their flat, in -15 C. While outside the Audi's and BMWs from the upper class queue up and the young people are the new middle class, the old are just watching it all pass them by. The gains of the new system aren't divided fairly. I'm surprised this 28-year-old needed to beg though, their age group have the best chances.

hypertele-Xii 6y ago

I met an elder romanian begger couple and they told me that EU rights don't matter for them. In practice they simply cannot receive the benefits they are entitled to at home, because they are of some kind of discriminated against minority (gypsies or something).

blub 6y ago

Western European countries seem to be completely incompetent at deporting people. Illegal immigrants, terrorists, criminals, they fail to deport almost everyone.

kaybe 6y ago
I don't think you can simply deport EU member citizens from a EU state. From what I can understand at first glance it is only possible when the citizen has been sentenced for a heavy crime. edit: Of course Geneva is not in the EU, but in many aspects the situation is similar.
- blub 6y ago
  They (we) can't even deport non-EU citizens!