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Sounds overly-simplistic but the solution is to build trust again. Unfortunately, the incentives that rule our society are pushing us away from this. We need t

Sounds overly-simplistic but the solution is to build trust again. Unfortunately, the incentives that rule our society are pushing us away from this. We need to align incentives properly if we're going to have any hope of building trust again. ex: 1. The internet, as a technology, is amazing but functions as a possible bullhorn for everyone, without filter. It does not reward the best possible or most positive idea, only the one that grabs the most attention. 2. Shock and outrage drive the clicks/views/attention and everyone gets paid on these metrics. 3. Social media companies thrive on and optimize for attention metrics. The longer you use them, at the expense of things like participating in your community and building relationships, the more "successful" they are and the more $$$ they get 4. Society has moved towards more specialized play and communities. We participate in fewer and fewer activities where we just randomly encounter strangers. 5. Our current election system rewards divisiveness because it drives turnout. The candidate that can do the best job doesn't win-the candidate that can get the most votes does. Possibly unpopular view: Encouraging religious participation would go a long way to help. Whether you believe or do not, religion helps align society away from purely individualistic pursuits and more towards a "corporate good".

iso1631 6y ago
> Possibly unpopular view: Encouraging religious participation would go a long way to help. Whether you believe or do not, religion helps align society away from purely individualistic pursuits and more towards a "corporate good". How does that work out in 3rd world countries where there's high levels of religious membership and high levels of angry young men https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_coun... "Is religion important in your daily life" There seems to be a correlation between countries with corrupt/untrusted governments and high religious importance. Compare the Corruption Perceptions Index 2019 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index] with importance of religion [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_coun...] And you don't get an exact line, but there's certainly a trend there. Those with high corruption and relatively low religion are ex Soviet/Commumist (Azerbajan, Ukraine, Russia, Vietnam, Bulgaria, Hungary, Belarus, Cuba have <50% religion and >50 corrupt) There's always outliers, like Singapore (70% religious but only 15 corrupt / 85 notcorrupt), but there's a trend https://i.imgur.com/oFiAbAN.png https://i.imgur.com/oFiAbAN.png
- xyzzyz 6y ago
  > There seems to be a correlation between countries with corrupt untrusted governments and high religious importance. Yes, when the system is very corrupt, you need to have some alternative way to build community, cohesion, and stability. In communist Poland, the Church has been the center of the opposition to the communist system. The system has been very corrupt, but people found solace, community and the support in the Church. When John Paul II was elected the Pope, the Polish people were reinvigorated, and rallied around him, creating Solidarity movement etc. The communist system has recognized the power of Church, and fought it viciously: for example, it murdered Jerzy Popieluszko, a priest famous for his association with Solidarity. This made Polish people rally around the Church even more. After the fall of communism, the Church no longer needed to provide this form of support, and over time, as the civil society has improved, the Church has used the legitimacy and respect it has built during communism to push its own agenda, which in past years has been rather divisive instead of uniting. Religion is not universal social good: its value depends on both the historical circumstance, and the actual content of practice and attitudes of leadership. It can be extremely beneficial, uniting society in ways impossible otherwise, but it can also be extremely damaging, to a deadly degree.
- cle 6y ago
  It's not hard to imagine confounding variables that could be influencing both, instead of a direct causal relationship.
- mgh2 6y ago
  Not all religions are created equal, but yes, the trend is prominent. There is some insight here if you dig deeper into the data. 1. https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-17/these-are-most-religious-places-world-and-what-theyre-practicing https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-17/these-are-most-religi... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index 3. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/12/how-do-americans-stand-out-from-the-rest-of-the-world/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/12/how-do-amer...
- misterbwong 6y ago
  Just as capitalism is an amazing "technology" to maximize monetary value creation, organized religion is quite possibly the best technology ever created for achieving things like person-to-person engagement, building trusted communities, and creating a shared value systems. There are others (community groups, bowling leagues, etc) but none have been as durable and successful. Like other technologies, it can be used for both good and evil and will be very effective doing so. Just throwing this out there: I'm a believer in Christianity and love to connect w/ people about this kinda stuff. If anyone wants to talk more, email is in profile.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
triceratops 6y ago
I'm not sure religious participation is the answer. Organized religion is responsible for plenty of misinformation. In the recent pandemic, there have been multiple superspreader events at unauthorized religious gatherings. Maybe sports leagues or mandatory national (or state) service?
hairofadog 6y ago
I think you're spot on about a lot of these points. On your last "unpopular view" about religion, religious groups can be like any other group of people in that each group falls somewhere on a spectrum between warm and welcoming vs. aggressively tribal. I think the sentiment is right, though – maybe "civic engagement" is what we're after here.
LocalH 6y ago
Whatever the answer, I'm convinced it will take nearly constant vigilance to prevent it from eventually being corrupted to serve the very evil it was meant to eradicate. This seems to be one of the few constants throughout human history.

iso1631 6y ago

> Possibly unpopular view: Encouraging religious participation would go a long way to help. Whether you believe or do not, religion helps align society away from purely individualistic pursuits and more towards a "corporate good". How does that work out in 3rd world countries where there's high levels of religious membership and high levels of angry young men https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_coun... "Is religion important in your daily life" There seems to be a correlation between countries with corrupt/untrusted governments and high religious importance. Compare the Corruption Perceptions Index 2019 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index] with importance of religion [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_coun...] And you don't get an exact line, but there's certainly a trend there. Those with high corruption and relatively low religion are ex Soviet/Commumist (Azerbajan, Ukraine, Russia, Vietnam, Bulgaria, Hungary, Belarus, Cuba have <50% religion and >50 corrupt) There's always outliers, like Singapore (70% religious but only 15 corrupt / 85 notcorrupt), but there's a trend https://i.imgur.com/oFiAbAN.png https://i.imgur.com/oFiAbAN.png

xyzzyz 6y ago
> There seems to be a correlation between countries with corrupt untrusted governments and high religious importance. Yes, when the system is very corrupt, you need to have some alternative way to build community, cohesion, and stability. In communist Poland, the Church has been the center of the opposition to the communist system. The system has been very corrupt, but people found solace, community and the support in the Church. When John Paul II was elected the Pope, the Polish people were reinvigorated, and rallied around him, creating Solidarity movement etc. The communist system has recognized the power of Church, and fought it viciously: for example, it murdered Jerzy Popieluszko, a priest famous for his association with Solidarity. This made Polish people rally around the Church even more. After the fall of communism, the Church no longer needed to provide this form of support, and over time, as the civil society has improved, the Church has used the legitimacy and respect it has built during communism to push its own agenda, which in past years has been rather divisive instead of uniting. Religion is not universal social good: its value depends on both the historical circumstance, and the actual content of practice and attitudes of leadership. It can be extremely beneficial, uniting society in ways impossible otherwise, but it can also be extremely damaging, to a deadly degree.
cle 6y ago
It's not hard to imagine confounding variables that could be influencing both, instead of a direct causal relationship.
mgh2 6y ago
Not all religions are created equal, but yes, the trend is prominent. There is some insight here if you dig deeper into the data. 1. https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-17/these-are-most-religious-places-world-and-what-theyre-practicing https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-17/these-are-most-religi... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index 3. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/12/how-do-americans-stand-out-from-the-rest-of-the-world/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/12/how-do-amer...
misterbwong 6y ago
Just as capitalism is an amazing "technology" to maximize monetary value creation, organized religion is quite possibly the best technology ever created for achieving things like person-to-person engagement, building trusted communities, and creating a shared value systems. There are others (community groups, bowling leagues, etc) but none have been as durable and successful. Like other technologies, it can be used for both good and evil and will be very effective doing so. Just throwing this out there: I'm a believer in Christianity and love to connect w/ people about this kinda stuff. If anyone wants to talk more, email is in profile.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

triceratops 6y ago

I'm not sure religious participation is the answer. Organized religion is responsible for plenty of misinformation. In the recent pandemic, there have been multiple superspreader events at unauthorized religious gatherings. Maybe sports leagues or mandatory national (or state) service?

hairofadog 6y ago

I think you're spot on about a lot of these points. On your last "unpopular view" about religion, religious groups can be like any other group of people in that each group falls somewhere on a spectrum between warm and welcoming vs. aggressively tribal. I think the sentiment is right, though – maybe "civic engagement" is what we're after here.

LocalH 6y ago

Whatever the answer, I'm convinced it will take nearly constant vigilance to prevent it from eventually being corrupted to serve the very evil it was meant to eradicate. This seems to be one of the few constants throughout human history.