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> I feel like sometimes this pisses the hardcore rowers off but I’m not a rower, I’m a tech guy. I also think fitness is important and have been working out all

by mawise 6y ago

> I feel like sometimes this pisses the hardcore rowers off but I’m not a rower, I’m a tech guy. I also think fitness is important and have been working out all of my adult life. Some other comments have mentioned the Concept 2 and how it's the standard. It sounds like you're actually targeting non-rowers who want a Peloton-like experience. (Sort of like how Peloton doesn't really target the cycling community). Is that how you're thinking about positioning?

FullNameAndy 6y ago
Exactly. I really should have stated this above. You explained it perfectly.
elliekelly 6y ago
I'm not OP but I suspect I'm in their target demographic. Orangetheory Fitness doesn't use the Concept2 and no one cares. I've never once heard anyone at Orangetheory complain that the machine wasn't a Concept2. I don't think the former rowers in this thread complaining about the machine are at all reflective of the public at large.
- rloomba 6y ago
  lol you're paying $20 for a 45 min class at Orange Theory... if you're shelling out $2500 for a new piece of gym equipment, you're going to care a little bit more.
  - FullNameAndy 6y ago
    Our customers justify the high price when you consider multiple family members would use the machine. Plus, convenience has been a major factor. Not having to book a class time, find parking, etc. they rather pay more than deal with that.
- jedc 6y ago
  I'm an OrangeTheory user and complain to my rower friends that OT doesn't use Concept2's. But it's not like I have any hope of getting OT to adopt a different product, and it's a relatively small part of an OT workout.
AWildC182 6y ago
Just for context, standard is defined on two fronts. 1. Each machine computes effective Watts differently, so pulling your guts out might be 1kW on one machine, and 400W on another. Whichever one everyone has the most experience with wins here. 2. There are a bunch of different designs across about three different resistance modes available A. air B. water and C. hydraulic piston. Air is generally regarded as the best as it doesn't change felt resistance with time, though it can be somewhat noisy, maybe 70dB. Water heats up as all the energy is dumped into it without anywhere else for it to go, so the viscosity changes very noticeably over a long workout. These also tend to have a nylon strap instead of a chain which stretches and can cause an odd sensation. Finally the worst, hydraulic piston, which has the smallest mass to dump energy into, will change resistance dramatically in a short time, and have been known to fail with experienced rowers, sometimes explosively. There is room for an electrical resistance variant in this lineup, as has been shown with cycling, though it's important to note that thermodynamics specifies the energy has to go somewhere, and you may end up with a dangerously hot resistor bank somewhere on the machine. It should also be noted that experienced rowers can output a considerable amount of power. Enough to cause piston rowers to overheat and explode/vent. Just because your resident mechanical engineer can't break the prototype doesn't mean you shouldn't find someone who can hit National Team numbers and have them go at it for an hour straight.
- t-writescode 6y ago
  > maybe 70dB Decidedly more than 70dB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yedBwDs7XH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yedBwDs7XH8 Water rowers peak at nearly 80. The Concept 2 clears 100dB edit: apparently some water rowers are louder than others. The last in their video hit approx 90dB
  - AWildC182 6y ago
    Depends on where you measure from but yea, 70 might be low. You can talk over two dozen heavies pulling 2ks on air rowers which definitely places it under 100dB.
    - 6y ago

by mawise 6y ago

FullNameAndy 6y ago

Exactly. I really should have stated this above. You explained it perfectly.

elliekelly 6y ago

I'm not OP but I suspect I'm in their target demographic. Orangetheory Fitness doesn't use the Concept2 and no one cares. I've never once heard anyone at Orangetheory complain that the machine wasn't a Concept2. I don't think the former rowers in this thread complaining about the machine are at all reflective of the public at large.

rloomba 6y ago
lol you're paying $20 for a 45 min class at Orange Theory... if you're shelling out $2500 for a new piece of gym equipment, you're going to care a little bit more.
- FullNameAndy 6y ago
  Our customers justify the high price when you consider multiple family members would use the machine. Plus, convenience has been a major factor. Not having to book a class time, find parking, etc. they rather pay more than deal with that.
jedc 6y ago
I'm an OrangeTheory user and complain to my rower friends that OT doesn't use Concept2's. But it's not like I have any hope of getting OT to adopt a different product, and it's a relatively small part of an OT workout.

AWildC182 6y ago

Just for context, standard is defined on two fronts. 1. Each machine computes effective Watts differently, so pulling your guts out might be 1kW on one machine, and 400W on another. Whichever one everyone has the most experience with wins here. 2. There are a bunch of different designs across about three different resistance modes available A. air B. water and C. hydraulic piston. Air is generally regarded as the best as it doesn't change felt resistance with time, though it can be somewhat noisy, maybe 70dB. Water heats up as all the energy is dumped into it without anywhere else for it to go, so the viscosity changes very noticeably over a long workout. These also tend to have a nylon strap instead of a chain which stretches and can cause an odd sensation. Finally the worst, hydraulic piston, which has the smallest mass to dump energy into, will change resistance dramatically in a short time, and have been known to fail with experienced rowers, sometimes explosively. There is room for an electrical resistance variant in this lineup, as has been shown with cycling, though it's important to note that thermodynamics specifies the energy has to go somewhere, and you may end up with a dangerously hot resistor bank somewhere on the machine. It should also be noted that experienced rowers can output a considerable amount of power. Enough to cause piston rowers to overheat and explode/vent. Just because your resident mechanical engineer can't break the prototype doesn't mean you shouldn't find someone who can hit National Team numbers and have them go at it for an hour straight.

t-writescode 6y ago
> maybe 70dB Decidedly more than 70dB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yedBwDs7XH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yedBwDs7XH8 Water rowers peak at nearly 80. The Concept 2 clears 100dB edit: apparently some water rowers are louder than others. The last in their video hit approx 90dB
- AWildC182 6y ago
  Depends on where you measure from but yea, 70 might be low. You can talk over two dozen heavies pulling 2ks on air rowers which definitely places it under 100dB.
  - 6y ago