3 ms·

diesel? I doubt you have jet-a seaplanes there. It's gasoline, (though, the nasty kind, with lead)

Naac 6y ago
Other than the Hackernews comment from a couple days ago suggesting this, do you have an links to sources saying these seaplanes use leaded fuels? I'm not disagreeing, I just want to make sure we're talking about real things and not starting rumors.
- colechristensen 6y ago
  Fuel for small engine (reciprocating engine) planes does indeed usually still contain lead. > Unlike motor gasoline, which has been formulated since the 1970s to allow the use of platinum-content catalytic converters for pollution reduction, the most commonly used grades of avgas still contain tetraethyllead (TEL), a toxic substance used to prevent engine knocking (detonation). There are ongoing experiments aimed at eventually reducing or eliminating the use of TEL in aviation gasoline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas
  - Robotbeat 6y ago
    Kind of interesting, but ethanol has SUPER high octane and could be used for avgas (although as we know with e85 cars, soft goods may need to be changed out). But using a mix of ethanol and gasoline can cause problems with water absorption and phase separation especially in cold conditions.
    - cameldrv 6y ago
      The water absorption and phase separation problems are particularly bad with airplanes because airplanes operate in very cold conditions when they go up to higher altitudes. I think that these problems also would apply to pure ethanol. The other kicker with ethanol is that its energy density is significantly lower, so it would significantly negatively impact the range/payload of every small airplane.
      - Robotbeat 6y ago
        The energy density issue is pretty small. You lose maybe 30%. This is tiny compared to the challenges of electric flight, for instance.
        colechristensen 6y ago
        30% is huge for an aircraft. Not only do you need more fuel for each trip, you need extra fuel to handle carrying around the extra fuel. (not necessarily intuitive starting out but aircraft deal with amplification factors, energy added ounce of fuel will require a greater than unity number of additional ounces of fuel for equivalent performance) Comparison to electric flight is a bad comparison as until very recently electric flight was basically considered to be impossible with present technology.
        Robotbeat 6y ago
        Electric flight in the history of flight has never been “impossible.” Anyone who told you it was impossible didn’t have the capacity/desire to think in terms of fundamentals beyond existing rules of thumb. (“Existing technology” is a nice weasel term, but we’ve had electric flight of various types demonstrated decades ago.) 30% is not high. It might convince you to do some drag reduction on your aircraft to compensate. Most small general aviation aircraft are terribly aerodynamically inefficient even compared to state of the art aircraft 50 years ago. 30% is barely relevant for the short intracity trips in this article.
- coryrc 6y ago
  I'm fairly certain these are leaded as well: https://www.seattleseaplanes.com/fleet-training.php https://www.seattleseaplanes.com/fleet-training.php
newsclues 6y ago
It’s Aviation Gas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas
matheweis 6y ago
Harbor Air and Kenmore Air both fly a bunch of turboprops around the Pacific Northwest, I see them all the time ... Only one of planes listed in Harbor Air’s fleet is a piston: https://www.harbourair.com/about/aircraft-fleet/ https://www.harbourair.com/about/aircraft-fleet/
- notatoad 6y ago
  >Only one of the planes listed in harbour air's fleet is a piston And that one is the one they're retrofitting with an electric motor
  - matheweis 6y ago
    It’s true that the Harbor Air prototype is the Beaver, but Magnix has been testing another prototype of a Caravan in parallel: https://www.businessinsider.com/magnix-all-electric-cessna-grand-caravan-takes-first-flight-2020-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/magnix-all-electric-cessna-g...
dghlsakjg 6y ago
Vancouver and Seattle both have a ton of turbine seaplane traffic. The smell at the seaplane docks is definitely Jet-A not gasoline.

Naac 6y ago

Other than the Hackernews comment from a couple days ago suggesting this, do you have an links to sources saying these seaplanes use leaded fuels? I'm not disagreeing, I just want to make sure we're talking about real things and not starting rumors.

colechristensen 6y ago
Fuel for small engine (reciprocating engine) planes does indeed usually still contain lead. > Unlike motor gasoline, which has been formulated since the 1970s to allow the use of platinum-content catalytic converters for pollution reduction, the most commonly used grades of avgas still contain tetraethyllead (TEL), a toxic substance used to prevent engine knocking (detonation). There are ongoing experiments aimed at eventually reducing or eliminating the use of TEL in aviation gasoline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas
- Robotbeat 6y ago
  Kind of interesting, but ethanol has SUPER high octane and could be used for avgas (although as we know with e85 cars, soft goods may need to be changed out). But using a mix of ethanol and gasoline can cause problems with water absorption and phase separation especially in cold conditions.
  - cameldrv 6y ago
    The water absorption and phase separation problems are particularly bad with airplanes because airplanes operate in very cold conditions when they go up to higher altitudes. I think that these problems also would apply to pure ethanol. The other kicker with ethanol is that its energy density is significantly lower, so it would significantly negatively impact the range/payload of every small airplane.
    - Robotbeat 6y ago
      The energy density issue is pretty small. You lose maybe 30%. This is tiny compared to the challenges of electric flight, for instance.
      - colechristensen 6y ago
        30% is huge for an aircraft. Not only do you need more fuel for each trip, you need extra fuel to handle carrying around the extra fuel. (not necessarily intuitive starting out but aircraft deal with amplification factors, energy added ounce of fuel will require a greater than unity number of additional ounces of fuel for equivalent performance) Comparison to electric flight is a bad comparison as until very recently electric flight was basically considered to be impossible with present technology.
        Robotbeat 6y ago
        Electric flight in the history of flight has never been “impossible.” Anyone who told you it was impossible didn’t have the capacity/desire to think in terms of fundamentals beyond existing rules of thumb. (“Existing technology” is a nice weasel term, but we’ve had electric flight of various types demonstrated decades ago.) 30% is not high. It might convince you to do some drag reduction on your aircraft to compensate. Most small general aviation aircraft are terribly aerodynamically inefficient even compared to state of the art aircraft 50 years ago. 30% is barely relevant for the short intracity trips in this article.
coryrc 6y ago
I'm fairly certain these are leaded as well: https://www.seattleseaplanes.com/fleet-training.php https://www.seattleseaplanes.com/fleet-training.php

newsclues 6y ago

It’s Aviation Gas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas

matheweis 6y ago

Harbor Air and Kenmore Air both fly a bunch of turboprops around the Pacific Northwest, I see them all the time ... Only one of planes listed in Harbor Air’s fleet is a piston: https://www.harbourair.com/about/aircraft-fleet/ https://www.harbourair.com/about/aircraft-fleet/

notatoad 6y ago
>Only one of the planes listed in harbour air's fleet is a piston And that one is the one they're retrofitting with an electric motor
- matheweis 6y ago
  It’s true that the Harbor Air prototype is the Beaver, but Magnix has been testing another prototype of a Caravan in parallel: https://www.businessinsider.com/magnix-all-electric-cessna-grand-caravan-takes-first-flight-2020-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/magnix-all-electric-cessna-g...

dghlsakjg 6y ago

Vancouver and Seattle both have a ton of turbine seaplane traffic. The smell at the seaplane docks is definitely Jet-A not gasoline.