5 ms·

But where does it end? People not wearing gas masks makes you less safe. People leaving their homes at all makes you less safe. A certain amount of risk is n

by slibhb 6y ago

But where does it end? People not wearing gas masks makes you less safe. People leaving their homes at all makes you less safe. A certain amount of risk is necessary if you're going to get out of your bed in the morning. What most people (including me) do is this: we follow the law (in almost all cases) and we use our own subjective judgements to determine how to act besides that. This gets tricky because even if none of us breaks the law, our subjective judgements often differ. Some examples: 1. The law where I live says I need to wear a mask inside public places/stores, which I do happily. 2. I wear a mask when I'm outside and there's lots of people around, because according to my subjective judgement, this makes sense (the law does not require this). 3. I don't wear a mask when I'm outside and there aren't a lot of people around. 4. I don't wear a mask when I'm running along a trail. 5. I don't eat-in at restaurants, even though the law allows maskless, indoor dining. What I find wrong about your comment is that you seem to be holding people accountable for not sharing the same subjective judgements as you. If I see people dining, maskless, inside a restaurant, I think "well, I wouldn't do that, but other people disagree". I don't categorize them as untrustworthy, bad people.

roywiggins 6y ago
I'm not wearing a mask when I am not within breath distance of anyone either. That's not what I'm talking about. Sometimes I am as charitable as you toward people who make dumb choices. Sometimes I am much less so, because those choices are helping fuck this all up for the rest of us. People having terrible judgement is, unfortunately, a good reason not to trust them as much as you otherwise would.
- Proziam 6y ago
  I understand your point of view and I see similar sentiments everywhere. Let me just deposit one thought: Basically all people hate being lied to, or to feel manipulated or controlled. A lot of people on the anti-mask train were totally on board for the '2 week lockdown' to flatten the curve. Those same people then saw their government officials repeatedly lie to them ("masks don't work!" ~ "Herd Immunity @ X%", etc), the media painted the picture of airborne ebola, and then those same politicians went out and violated their own lockdown orders. Meanwhile, their local economy is destroyed and they or people they care about are suffering/struggling. And for those that take a more global view of things, there is some [0,1]evidence that supply chain disruption is killing more people than Covid itself. It's easy to feel like those people are complete idiots and ruining it for everyone else. It's much harder, but much more valuable, to focus on solutions to the underlying problem. Ultimately, we need to restore trust in our institutions before we can begin to repair the divide. [0]https://time.com/5864803/oxfam-hunger-covid-19/ https://time.com/5864803/oxfam-hunger-covid-19/ [1]https://www.un.org/press/en/2020/ga12294.doc.htm https://www.un.org/press/en/2020/ga12294.doc.htm
  - foolinaround 6y ago
    and to add to this point, the folks advocating for usage of masks for all were not advocating to compensate the loss of income for the lockdowns. this immediately created 2 classes -- folks who will get their salaries from their professions inspite of the lockdowns and those who won't and would be left to suffer
    - Proziam 6y ago
      Related to this, one of my major concerns for 2021 and beyond is how much money we're [0]printing and the effect that will have on people's purchasing power. Couple that with the fact that a huge portion of small businesses in the US are [1]closed forever, many with severe financial repercussions for the owners (who are totally average people, not the upper class many think of when 'business owner' gets used as a term). In short, I think we're going to be in for massive long-term unemployment (and underemployment) coupled with inflation beyond what anyone living today in the US has experienced. I'm not too confident about the state of this nation's finances [0] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1 [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/16/yelp-data-shows-60percent-of-business-closures-due-to-the-coronavirus-pandemic-are-now-permanent.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/16/yelp-data-shows-60percent-of...

by slibhb 6y ago

roywiggins 6y ago

I'm not wearing a mask when I am not within breath distance of anyone either. That's not what I'm talking about. Sometimes I am as charitable as you toward people who make dumb choices. Sometimes I am much less so, because those choices are helping fuck this all up for the rest of us. People having terrible judgement is, unfortunately, a good reason not to trust them as much as you otherwise would.

Proziam 6y ago
I understand your point of view and I see similar sentiments everywhere. Let me just deposit one thought: Basically all people hate being lied to, or to feel manipulated or controlled. A lot of people on the anti-mask train were totally on board for the '2 week lockdown' to flatten the curve. Those same people then saw their government officials repeatedly lie to them ("masks don't work!" ~ "Herd Immunity @ X%", etc), the media painted the picture of airborne ebola, and then those same politicians went out and violated their own lockdown orders. Meanwhile, their local economy is destroyed and they or people they care about are suffering/struggling. And for those that take a more global view of things, there is some [0,1]evidence that supply chain disruption is killing more people than Covid itself. It's easy to feel like those people are complete idiots and ruining it for everyone else. It's much harder, but much more valuable, to focus on solutions to the underlying problem. Ultimately, we need to restore trust in our institutions before we can begin to repair the divide. [0]https://time.com/5864803/oxfam-hunger-covid-19/ https://time.com/5864803/oxfam-hunger-covid-19/ [1]https://www.un.org/press/en/2020/ga12294.doc.htm https://www.un.org/press/en/2020/ga12294.doc.htm
- foolinaround 6y ago
  and to add to this point, the folks advocating for usage of masks for all were not advocating to compensate the loss of income for the lockdowns. this immediately created 2 classes -- folks who will get their salaries from their professions inspite of the lockdowns and those who won't and would be left to suffer
  - Proziam 6y ago
    Related to this, one of my major concerns for 2021 and beyond is how much money we're [0]printing and the effect that will have on people's purchasing power. Couple that with the fact that a huge portion of small businesses in the US are [1]closed forever, many with severe financial repercussions for the owners (who are totally average people, not the upper class many think of when 'business owner' gets used as a term). In short, I think we're going to be in for massive long-term unemployment (and underemployment) coupled with inflation beyond what anyone living today in the US has experienced. I'm not too confident about the state of this nation's finances [0] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1 [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/16/yelp-data-shows-60percent-of-business-closures-due-to-the-coronavirus-pandemic-are-now-permanent.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/16/yelp-data-shows-60percent-of...