11 ms·
What I don't understand, is how you can so meticulously keep notes about everything you learn? This is also my problem when I see the recent "hype" around Roam
by JW_00000 6y ago
What I don't understand, is how you can so meticulously keep notes about everything you learn? This is also my problem when I see the recent "hype" around Roam Research, Obsidian, Foam etc. I constantly come across and read stuff, in newspapers, on HN, on reddit, etc. How can you find the time to keep notes about this and keep it organized? And how do you make sure you aren't spending more time on organizing/formatting/maintaining your notes and making it look nice instead of actually reading doing productive stuff? (Honest questions, I'm interested in other peoples' approaches.)
- nikivi 6y agoYou are right. A lot of the 'notes' in this wiki are actually links under ## Links heading for me to checkout later. It acts as a kind of Pinboard but instead of a db, things are kept in markdown files. Organizing and adding new links is easy with some automation. My dream though is have a kind of structured way of knowing what ideas I am working on now and what topics I am learning. The wiki then lets me answer the 'how I am learning' and 'in what order' questions. I started to do the planning in Notion currently. https://wiki.nikitavoloboev.xyz/focusing/goals https://wiki.nikitavoloboev.xyz/focusing/goals
- roflc0ptic 6y agoI find that not writing things down to save time is a false economy. For me, the act of tracking notes and links with Roam keeps me on track, and increases retention. It further saves time when I want to go look up something I recently learned, e.g. the definition of a slippery word.
- haps 6y agoI tried various methods and programs for several years until i found Typora for my note making, which is just a simple markdown-editor with a file-tree to the left, so i can view my different folders and switch between notes easily. I'm an introverted individual who thinks a lot about different topics almost constantly. The reasons why it helps me: 1. Thoughts are easily forgotten. I think a lot, but i also forget a lot. Taking notes helps me to actually remember those thoughts for a later date, so that they don't go to waste and i can act upon them. 2. Thoughts clutter up my brain. When i don't write down what i think, then they pile up in my conscious and leave little space for other things i would rather focus on. This might look like i'm contradicting myself with point 1, but there is a difference between trying to not forget something and having it memorised. 3. Thoughts aren't formulated in comprehensive sentences. For a lot of these thoughts i have more of a feeling that i realised something or that i've made a break-through somewhere. Writing them down helps me make sense out of them and internalize them more. 4. I write down the things that i don't want to remember. I would rather learn about the things i really want to remember, then what function B in framework A does and how it connects to C. The way i take notes is really lightweight. I have build up a simple system on how i write everything, because i don't wanna waste my time with reorganizing and building up smart structures for my notes. I don't bother with making them look nice, because it is meant as a second brain for me and not something i can brag about in front of other people. I don't care about grammar or doing something the "right way", the knowledge is the focus. In terms of getting in the way of productivity. I noticed that i can be more productive with taking notes, because i can prevent solving the same problem twice and everything i've learned is easily accessible somewhere, i just gotta look for it.
- karlicoss 6y agoI'm thinking it's sort of a balance/spectrum. Some people (like me) have sort of a FOMO and would rather have the comfort of knowing they can access the information later, paying for it with organization/processing. (and yes, in most cases I can find it within seconds when I need) Some would rather miss on information, but have less cognitive overhead, with minimal organization (e.g. a daily diary/todo-list, and that's it). I'm also not sure it directly relates to doing 'productive' stuff (in whatever sense) -- there is certainly a plenty of people who don't keep track of any information, and also don't do much apart from passively consuming. You could be super concentrated on your work and have no mental energy for learning other subjects, or you could be more relaxed at work and be engaged in more topics outside of it.
- albertzeyer 6y agoSkimming through this, it looks more like organized public bookmarks. Many of the pages just contain (mostly) a list of links. There are barely any notes. I actually do this as well. Just some text files, where I put links I stumble upon, which I find interesting. Not always all links but only really interesting ones. Also maybe only for topics where I think it's not so easy to find such links later on via Google. Also, I don't really intend this to be complete. Sometimes I also do research on some new topic, and for that I keep notes. If I think the research / overview / my notes of this topic are of any value to others, I would maybe just make it public somewhere. Some of these links and notes I keep private. If it is public, I would probably just put it here: https://github.com/albertz/wiki https://github.com/albertz/wiki
- Pyrodogg 6y agoI think this is fairly logical. There will always be more things that you're "aware of, interested in" than you deeply "know and understand". This leads to more references than notes, and more unread books than read books in one's library.
- AJRF 6y agoNot OP, but I have a 1,000 high quality notes, so I feel a little qualified to talk about this. 1. Emacs + Org mode & Org Roam. 2. All my notes are synced in Dropbox so I can use the beorg app on iOS. 3. Any time I need a note (be that to look for one or create one) I have a shortcut, Cmd + N and I start typing a topic (Health, Xcode, Java, etc). If i've found a match it shows up in a list, if there is no match there is a prompt to create a new note. I don't care about overlapping notes because; 4. Search over notes by pressing Cmd+F. This starts a fzf search over the notes. If I see multiple notes on the same topic I can link them using org-roam references, consolidate them if they are similar enough, or if I don't care just leave it as is. People always commend me on my astounding memory. It's all down to org-mode.
- canoebuilder 6y agoWhat code do you have C-N bound to? A public package, or something custom you've written? Is it just searching file names?
- AJRF 6y agoit a keyboard shortcut for org-roam-find-file. (global-set-key (kbd "M-n") 'org-roam-find-file)
- canoebuilder 6y agoThanks
- nomad225 6y agoThat sounds like an interesting system. I've been trying to get into using org more often, and so far i've figured out journaling and using org for creating nicely formatted PDFs via LaTeX. But I haven't had much luck getting into taking general notes about topics using org so far. Do you follow any sort of structure inside of the individual topic notes, or is it more freestyle?
- AJRF 6y ago
- minxomat 6y agoIt's not hard, but there's also no silver bullet. Start by reading "How to Take Smart Notes" (Ahrens), which is a science-based review of second-brain/slip-box systems and then iterate on that until it fits your workflow.
- tartoran 6y agoI have another problem as I do take notes to help me focus and remember things. The problem I noticed is that I never really have time to go back to my notes unless I am searching for something specifically. Linear notes with a date usually help me locate the info I am looking for. So I'm wondering, how do people review their notes? When? Are they using a strategy for this? Also I'm not really looking to commit to memory my notes.
- maxs 6y agoI had the same problem which is why I made an app called MindPalace (https://github.com/msipos/mind-palace https://github.com/msipos/mind-palace) It's a note app where every note has a repetition schedule. The schedule can be dynamic (growing-shrinking) or fixed. For example, my diary entries repeat every 365 days so I enjoy reading what my diary entries/thoughts were a year (or 2, or 3) years ago.
- not_knuth 6y agoInteresting you point that out, because I also used to feel that way. But as I started typing more notes, I realised that just the act of typing out my thoughts and putting them into prose goes a long way to understanding something [0]. Nowadays, if I don't understand something, I head to the keyboard and start explaing it in text and it pretty much always works. I rarely revisit notes, mostly to link them together and very seldomly to revise them. If I have the time to organize the notes, that's great, if not, that's fine too. I don't know know if this will work for you though. Learning is highly personal and imo just trying to find new ways to learn things can help a lot too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_effect
- jpeloquin 6y ago> The problem I noticed is that I never really have time to go back to my notes unless I am searching for something specifically. If you find what you need when you need it, is never doing a nonspecific review really a problem? Notes are just a tool to support you in achieving your goals. If you don't need to recall information instantaneously, skipping review-as-memorization is just fine. If important items aren't being inadvertently neglected and falling through the cracks, skipping review-as-reflection is ok too.
- dkarl 6y agoI'm selective about what I take notes about and don't fret about tooling. I've used Evernote since 2011 and think about switching from time to time because Evernote is not great. But I use it, and I can search notes going back to 2011. I have packing checklists, travel notes, and post-trip notes from foreign travel and backpacking trips, lists of books and movies that I have and haven't read, a commonplace book of quotes and images, notes about technologies and commands that I wrote for reference, essays I wrote for the sake of clarifying my own thinking, recipes with notes about adjustments and variations I've tried. Organized? Pshhh. Mostly search. I put every note in a notebook, and I have some tags that I use to define collections of notes for particular purposes. Search works for the rest. Oh, and I don't try to make notes about everything I learn. I only have a note if at some point I felt there would be value in working out my thoughts or preserving something for later reference. I also delete things, because when I need to do, say, a git bisect, I create a note to help me remember the commands right now and for the next month or two in case I need it again, but if I run across that note later and I haven't used it in two years, I'll delete it, because if I ever need it again I'll probably find a better resource in twenty seconds using a web search. The most important thing is to be very careful and intentional about thinking of your notes as a product. Sometimes you want to document something very well, very clearly, so you can come back to it later when you've forgotten most of the context, but that's rare. Usually the cost/benefit pushes me to almost always write decent notes (which takes effort) but rarely excellent ones. I think people fall into the trap of being attracted to their notes as something they can be proud of, something they could show off (or imagine showing off.) Then your note-taking habit is vulnerable to all kinds of swings in your mind, changes of taste, changes of interest. Have the discipline to be practical, not proud.
- codethief 6y ago> I think people fall into the trap of being attracted to their notes as something they can be proud of, something they could show off (or imagine showing off.) Then your note-taking habit is vulnerable to all kinds of swings in your mind, changes of taste, changes of interest. Have the discipline to be practical, not proud. Beautifully put. Thank you!
- bumbada 6y agoI am not the OP either but I also take notes. >How can I so meticulously keep notes about everything I learn? Very easy, because I know if I don't take notes I won't really learn it. I know I will forget that over time because I am trained in spaced repetition and I know if I don't review something I will loose it forever in the future. If I spend hours reading an important book and don't review it, I will forget and waste those hours. Nothing less productive than that. Most people forget most of what they learn and are not conscious about it. >And how do you make sure you aren't spending more time on organizing/formatting/maintaining your notes and making it look nice instead of actually reading doing productive stuff? I have it automated. I am an expert programmer so I spend very little time doing that. It is extremely productive because I know how to do things most people can't. "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" Albert Einstein I have never cared about making it look nice. I started using paper and an automatic feeder Fujitsu scanner. It was ugly at first but worked. After years of improvement,it looks nice, beautiful if you want, but it was never the goal. The goal was automatic review, and powerful search.
- sgpl 6y agoYeah tbh I didn't know what to expect when clicking the link and it's bringing up feelings where I feel like a bit of an imposter? (imposter syndrome) because I don't track and organize all my learnings. Not sure if imposter is the the right term - perhaps a sense of loss or regret over all the things that I could have written down and revisited over the years. I've also been seeing everyone (at least a lot of people) talk about roam, etc. to meticulously track and link everything and not sure whether it's something I should invest time in vs. everything else that I want/need to get done.
- eecks 6y agoIt doesn't matter if you write it down or not. You'll forget it anyway. The writings will look like someone else wrote them and someone else learned them.
- fossuser 6y agoThis article was really interesting to me and something I want to try: http://augmentingcognition.com/ltm.html http://augmentingcognition.com/ltm.html I've used flash cards in the past to memorize things for school - and I'd believe what he describes would really work for learning new complex topics by speeding up some of the basic memory stuff that makes you actually good. I have a pretty negative impression of Roam though. They talk as if they've invented some new form of computing when they're another centralized document SaaS graph database that's a step up from notion/quip. I think there's real value there building a nice interface and they're probably better than existing options (features around links, etc.), but there's also a ton of bullshit from them that sets off alarms for me. They think they're xerox parc, but they're more like snapchat.
- mcamac 6y agoFrom personal experience, highly recommend this methodology. Note taking was always short-term helpful for me, but I found a step change in retention, etc.. by reliably reviewing new knowledge via spaced repetition. Another good article about notes as flashcards: https://andymatuschak.org/prompts/ https://andymatuschak.org/prompts/ (written by a collaborator of your linked article). Also, agree re. Roam!
- runjake 6y agoThere is a difference between consuming information and learning. Consuming information on Reddit/HN/etc doesn't do much for you until you apply that information -- or at least paraphase that information into notes.
- input_sh 6y agoI follow a simple rule: if I don't write it down, I know I will forget it. It's not a question of if I'll forget it, but when. And when that time comes, I'm able to do a search and remind myself of my thoughts about the book/article/podcast/whatever. With that out of the mind, how to do that is easy. Just annotate whatever you're consuming, then look through those annotations, and paraphrase them in a way that it makes sense for you. I do that after every few book chapters, or every few articles in my Pocket with a tag `extract`. I can automate that as well, but annotations alone are not "knowledge" that belongs in my knowledge base. I also pay attention to properly reference stuff, so that I could easily back up my claims in whichever circumstance I need to do so. This is the most common use case of retrieving info from my knowledge base. I vaguely remember something, I look it up in my kb, and I can phrase it better and back it up with sources if I think it's necessary.
- username90 6y agoThis seems to mostly just be a lot of books and blogs he have read, is a lot easier than properly writing down everything.
- m463 6y agokeeping something important in your mind is a burden. writing it down is a relief. It won't be forgotten and now you can expound on it, go where it leads, or put it out of your mind until later.
- young_unixer 6y agoI use a Github repository with plain text files.